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Zulu: Lieutenant John Chard:What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead:Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you
 
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 Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN

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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyTue Aug 20, 2013 12:01 pm

Came across this name this in a London IllustratedMay 17th 1879. He is credited with some sketches published, Do we have any further info on him? The names just to much of a coincidence.

Cheers
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90th

90th

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Sub Lt Smith - Dorrien RN.   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyTue Aug 20, 2013 12:48 pm

Hi Springy .
Fairly certain he is Horace's brother . Very Happy 
90th. agree
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90th

90th

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Sub Lt Smith - Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyTue Aug 20, 2013 12:51 pm

Hi Springy .
I seem to think Smith - Dorrien RN may well be on the Forum ................somewhere ? .
90th. Salute 
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Frank Allewell

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyTue Aug 20, 2013 12:51 pm

Never to old to learn I suppose. Salute 
I never knew he had one.

Cheers
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90th

90th

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Sub Lt Smith - Dorrien RN    Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyTue Aug 20, 2013 1:02 pm

Hi Springy .
I'm not home so cant check the books , but I have the medal roll here , just checked the Medal Roll and Lt A.H.Smith - Dorrien served aboard HMS Shah and was entitled to the Medal with the Clasp 1879 . From memory his name may have been Arthur ? . Happy to be corrected . agree 
Cheers 90th. You need to study mo 
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Frank Allewell

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyTue Aug 20, 2013 1:32 pm

90th
I think your right. A lot of his sketching was done at Gingindlovu, and a lot of the HMS Shah boys.
Cheers
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Guest
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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyTue Aug 20, 2013 3:26 pm

Arthur Hale Smith-Dorrien was a brother of Horace Smith-Dorrien.

Smith-Dorrien was one of the Naval Brigade from HMS Shah that went ashore on 7 Mar, 1879.  He was part of the Eshowe Relief Column and was present at the Battle of Gingindlovu.  He remained at the Gingindlovu camp and later at Fort Chelmsford until the move to Port Durnford.

On April 27 he accompanied Commander Brackenbury and Sub-Lieutenant Startin to the coast looking for a suitable landing place for troops and supplies from the sea, and to attempt to make contact with HMS Forester.  Enclosed in the Commander’s report to Captain Campbell were two sketches drawn by Sub-Lieutenant Smith-Dorrien.  Smith-Dorrien also submitted several of his sketches to the newspapers, among which were:

Illustrated London News, 3 May, 1879 illustration entitled “Sailors of H.M.S. Shah crossing the river for the Relief of Ekowe” was based on a sketch submitted by Sub-Lieutenant A. H. Smith-Dorrien.

Illustrated London News, 24 May, 1879 illustration entitled “Inside the laager at Ginghilovo during the Zulu attack” base on a sketch by Sub-Lieutenant A. H. Smith-Dorrien.

Illustrated London News, 24 May, 1879 illustration entitled “The Zulu War: Men of H.M.S. Shah at Ginghilovo” from a sketch by Sub-Lieutenant Smith Dorrien, R.N.

On 19 June he became part of the combined Naval Brigade after joining the forces of Captain Campbell that had marched up from Fort Pearson to Fort Chelmsford.  He then accompanied Crealock’s column to Port Durnford where he remained until the “Shah’s” contingent departed Port Durnford on the hired transport “City of Venice” to be returned to their ship.

Smith-Dorrien served ashore with the Naval Brigade from 7 March, 1879 to 21 July, 1879.  He was Mentioned- in- Despatches; promoted to Lieutenant on 6 November 1879; and received the South Africa Medal with Clasp “1879” on 8 November 1881.

There is an account of his career and his funeral at the following link:

https://www.1879zuluwar.com/t2397-sub-lt-a-smith-dorrien?highlight=dorrien

One of the pallbearers at his funeral was J. A. Littlejohns (listed on the medal roll as ‘Littlejohn’.)   Able Seaman James A. Littlejohns was part of the Naval Brigade landed from HMS Shah.

It would be Interesting to know what the connection there was between the two that over 50 years later Littlejohns would be a pallbearer at Smith-Dorrien’s funeral.  Could Littlejohn have been his servant?


Petty Officer Tom


Last edited by Petty Officer Tom on Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Frank Allewell

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyTue Aug 20, 2013 3:46 pm

Thanks POT
Another issue cleared up Salute 

Cheers
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Arthur H. Smith-Dorrien   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyTue Aug 20, 2013 4:03 pm

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90th

90th

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Sub Lt Smith - Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyWed Aug 21, 2013 1:55 am

Hi Isandula .
Excellent cdv , thanks for posting it , much appreciated .
90th. You need to study mo 
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littlehand

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyTue Nov 19, 2013 10:14 pm

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littlehand

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyTue Nov 19, 2013 10:47 pm

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Chard1879

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyTue Nov 19, 2013 11:10 pm

Nice one Littlehand.
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6pdr

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyWed Nov 20, 2013 3:48 am

springbok9 wrote:
Never to old to learn I suppose. Salute 
I never knew he had one.
Horace was the 11th child of a family of 6 boys and 9 girls.  Dad retired a Colonel (16th Lancers, 3rd Light Dragoons and Hertfordshire militia) so it was a military family.

His eldest brother served with the 10th Lancers.  Two other older brothers went into the navy.  A fourth went into the church.  Classic really although part of the family used Dorrien-Smith and his own preferred Smith-Dorrien!

(This is probably the only chance I'll ever get to tell you something you don't already know Springbok, so forgive me laying it on with a trowel. Salute
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Frank Allewell

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyWed Nov 20, 2013 6:31 am

6pd
Always willing to learn. That's the beauty of the forum, the sharing of knowledge.

agree 
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John

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyWed Nov 20, 2013 5:42 pm

Good post LH! Wonder what the relationship between the two brothers was like. Don't recall either of them mentioning eachother in connection with the Zulu war. Or did they?
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6pdr

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyWed Nov 20, 2013 5:51 pm

John wrote:
Good post LH!  Wonder what the relationship between the two brothers was like. Don't recall either of them mentioning eachother in connection with the Zulu war.
I was struck by the same thing. They may have been separated by enough years that they weren't very close. SD's biographer does not mention them visiting one another (which doesn't mean it didn't happen but there's no record,) and at one point after Isandlwana, Horace was laid up with typhoid fever for months on the stone floor of a church in Ladysmith. Plus, though Horace should have been shipped home, he managed to hang around for Chelmsford's second go around to Ulundi. One would have thought the brothers might run across one another at some point...
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John

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyWed Nov 20, 2013 6:11 pm

Perhaps one of our web searcher's, maybe able to dig something up. Question
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John

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyWed Nov 20, 2013 6:30 pm

OldH for you.

http://ramblingsofkeith.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/is-ths-haunted-house-berkhamsted.html
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Chard1879

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyWed Nov 20, 2013 7:39 pm

There's a mention in " Memories Of forty Eight Years Service"

"A strong naval contingent, formed from the crews of H.M. ships Shah, Tenedos, and Boadicea, took part in this battle, and with it a brother of mine, now a retired Admiral. This force was destined never to reach Ulundi, for it was so long in starting, because according to an amusing but probably utterly untrue report which was circulated, the G.O.C. would not move without his full month's supply of pepper; it was still in the neighbourhood of Port Durnford when the battle of Ulundi was fought."
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1879graves

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyThu Nov 21, 2013 10:24 pm

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Western Morning News, Wednesday 07 June 1933.
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http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptyThu Nov 21, 2013 10:31 pm

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Western Morning News, Tuesday 18 July 1933.
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littlehand

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptySun Jul 13, 2014 12:43 pm

Chronology of Smith-Dorrien's Career

"May 26, 1858. Born in Haresfoot, Berkhampstead.
1872. Educated at Harrow.
December, 1875. Passed entrance exam for the Royal Military College
at Sandhurst.
January 1876-December 1876. Cadet at Sandhurst.
January 4, 1877. Joined 95th Regiment of Foot in Dublin and Cork,
Ireland as a lieutenant.
1878-1879. Fought in the Zulu War in South Africa.
1880-August 1882. Service with the 2nd Battalion Sherwood Foresters
(old 95th Foot) in Ireland, England, and Gilbralter.
August 21, 1882-February 1883. Service with his regiment in Egypt.
He saw action around Alexandria and was promoted to captain on
August 22, 1882.
February 1883-January 1884. On sick leave in England after injuring
knee in India enroute to his unit's cantonment.
January 1884-February 1886. Service in Egypt. While returning to India,
Smith-Dorrien accepted a position in the Egyptian army under Sir
Evelyn Wood. He saw combat near Suakin and along the Nile River.
February 1886-June 1886. On leave in England studying for the entrance
exam to the Staff College at Camberly.
June 1886-January 1887. Back in Egypt awaiting the start of the Staff
College.
January 1887- December 1888. Staff College.
January 1889-April 1892. In India with the 2nd Battalion Sherwood
Foresters.
April 1892-April 1893. Deputy Assistant Adjutant-General of the
Oudh District, Bengal, India. Promoted to major on May 11,
1892.
April 1893-December 1893. On leave in India.
December 1893-0ctober 1894. Returned to his position as D.A.A.G., Oudh.
October 1894-April 1895. Assistant Adjutant-General, Umballa, India.
April 1895-August 1895. Deputy Assistant Adjutant and QuartermasterGeneral
to a reserve brigade in the Chitral Campaign on the Northwest
Frontier.
August 1895-April 1896. Returned to previous job as A.A.G., Umballa.
April 1896-June 1896. Service with Sherwood Foresters in India.
June 1896-0ctober 1896. On leave in England.
October 1896-April 1898. On active service in the Tirah Campaign in
Afghanistan.
April 1898-December 1898.
battle of Omdurman.
20, 1898.
On active service in Egypt: fought in the
Promoted to brevet lieutenant-colonel on May
January 1899-December 1899. Commanded 1st Battalion Sherwood Foresters
on Malta.
December 1899-April 1901. Fought in Boer War. Commanded the 19th
Brigade and later the 21st Division. Promoted to major-general
on February 11, 1900 (age 42).
May 1901-November 1901. On leave in England.
November 1901-April 1903. Adjutant-General of the Indian Army. On
September 3, 1902, Smith-Dorrien married Miss Olive Crofton
Sneider while on a short official leave to England.
April 1903-December 1907. G.O.C. 4th Division, Quetta, India. Promoted
to lieutenant-general in December 1907.
December 1907-February 1912. G.O.C.-in-C., Aldershot Command.
February 1912-August 1914. G.O.C.-in-C., Southern Command. Promoted
to general on August 10, 1912.
1914- August, 18. Smith-Dorrien appointed to command II Corps, B.E.F.
August 23-24. Battle of Mons.
August 26. Battle of Le Cateau.
September 9. Battle of the Marne.
September 13-0ctober 3. Battle of the Aisne.
October 12-November 15. Battle of Ypres.
December 25. Appointed to command 2nd Army.
1915- April 22. German gas attack.
May 7. Relieved of command by Sir John French and sent home
to England.
June 22. Appointed to command the 1st Home Defence Army.
November 22. Appointed to command the East African Expedition.
1916- February 13. Invalided home from Capetown with severe
pneumonia.
1918-1923. Governor-General of Gibralter.
1923-1930. Retired.
August 11, 1930. Fatally injured in an automobile accident and died
the next day at age 72."
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John Young

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptySun Jul 13, 2014 2:34 pm

Littlehand,

That's Horace's career and not Arthur's!

John Y.
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6pdr

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Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN   Sub Lt Smith-Dorrien RN EmptySun Jul 13, 2014 2:48 pm

Are you sure?  Maybe they were identical twins!  Joker
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