WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn quote: “Excuse me, my Lord, there's something I must convey to you. I rode along the track down to Rorke's Drift. The sky above is red with fire. Your orders my Lord? Do we move to the drift?”
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Henry William Longcast, Interpreter.
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Oct 27, 2020 9:29 am by John Young

» Officers of the 1st Battalion, 24th Regiment circa 1868
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Oct 26, 2020 11:31 pm by John Young

» HMS Active RMA and Kroomen duties
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySat Oct 24, 2020 10:39 pm by Herbie

» Famous death?
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySat Oct 24, 2020 3:38 pm by Frank Allewell

» N/5 Battery RA at Isandlwana
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySat Oct 24, 2020 10:20 am by SRB1965

» The Pickets on Mkwene
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Oct 23, 2020 11:30 am by Frank Allewell

» Durnford's medical officer
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Oct 23, 2020 9:51 am by Julian Whybra

» Victorian HMS SHAH South Africa Zulu Wars Medal William Morrison Royal Navy
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyThu Oct 22, 2020 5:37 pm by Danny1960

» 1st Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment, 1875
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Oct 19, 2020 12:29 pm by John Young

» The 'other' fighting clerk - Corporal JH Mayor, N.N.C
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySat Oct 17, 2020 5:07 am by Frank Allewell

» Somerset soldiers killed at Isandhlwana
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Oct 16, 2020 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» "The Wiltshire Regiment 1756-1914"
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySat Oct 10, 2020 4:46 am by kaveman

» The Unknown Warrior Westminster Abbey
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyWed Oct 07, 2020 3:06 pm by ADMIN

» Lance Corporal Robert Eaton NMP
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Oct 06, 2020 2:12 pm by Julian Whybra

» Lieutenant Anthony Kingscote, HMS Tenedos
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Oct 02, 2020 3:31 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» Sir Robert Gordon Gilmour
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyThu Oct 01, 2020 4:22 pm by 90th

» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyThu Oct 01, 2020 11:27 am by 1879graves

» Lieutenant Frederick Streatfield Pelly, RN
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Sep 29, 2020 4:09 pm by 1879graves

» KEYNSHAMLIGHTHORSE GRAVES WEBSITE
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Sep 29, 2020 8:08 am by ADMIN

» Regimental numbers
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 12:55 pm by Frank Allewell

» Isandlwana, Last Stands
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 9:13 am by Julian Whybra

» Colour of Lord Chelsmford eyes
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 8:05 am by Simonsole

» List of identified bodies at Isandlwana
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyThu Sep 17, 2020 5:30 am by John Young

» Defenders of Rorkes Drift
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyWed Sep 16, 2020 6:47 pm by Digger

» Colour Sgt Anthony Clark Booth, VC.
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Sep 15, 2020 6:47 pm by ADMIN

» Cpl John Lyons
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 7:49 pm by Bill8183

» A Case of Mistaken Identity?
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 11:29 am by John Young

» What happened next
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 10:51 am by Springbok

» Surgeon Espine Charles Ward
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyWed Sep 09, 2020 9:38 am by John Young

» 2nd Lieutenant William Lancelot James, 2nd/4th Regiment.
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 2:41 pm by ADMIN

» Explaining Amabutho in one word??
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 11:49 am by SRB1965

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Navy and Royal Marines
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyThu Sep 03, 2020 4:05 pm by Frank Allewell

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Artillery
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyWed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 pm by Catiline63

» Colonel William,Egerton Saunders, C.B
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:46 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant-Colonel David Campbell Williamson.
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:32 pm by ADMIN

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Rorke's Drift BBC Radio 4
Top posters
90th
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
littlehand
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
ADMIN
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
1879graves
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
rusteze
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
John
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
Frank Allewell
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
John Young
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Herbie
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
90th
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
SRB1965
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Petty Officer Tom
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Danny1960
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Tim Needham
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_leftTop points of disagreement between historians/authors BarTop points of disagreement between historians/authors Bar_right 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Adding to the Library
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
james henry drift john Woolfryes martini Mounted taylor harford payne Natal gardner smith horse Russell spalding Franklin Isandlwana william Durnford melvill Prince zulu Police 24th George

 

 Top points of disagreement between historians/authors

Go down 
AuthorMessage
dlancast

dlancast

Posts : 42
Join date : 2010-11-05
Location : Texas

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 5:24 pm

I was wondering what forum members consider the top ten(not to limit the list) points are that historians/authrors seem to disagree on in the AZW.  I know that I have 70 - 80 books, articles etc and smetimes it is confusing to get at the real truth of the matter (if that is even possible).  Some examples might be
* Was Chelmsford lured out?
* Where did the main Impi stay the night before the battle?
* What do you think?
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young

Posts : 2145
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 5:33 pm

dlancast,

There's the old chestnut of the ammunition supply to the firing-line.

The number of European survivors of iSandlwana is still a bone of contention for some.

The number of the garrison at Rorke's Drift, obviously including who was/was not there.

Just a few for starters.

JY
Back to top Go down
littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7086
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 52
Location : Down South.

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 7:02 pm

M&C is another!  Along with the VC question?
Back to top Go down
24th

24th

Posts : 1851
Join date : 2009-03-25

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 7:24 pm

Was David Jenkins at RD:suspect: 
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 7:48 pm


Was David Jenkins at RD Suspect 

24th, not long now, we can wait
another four day's, look forward
to your counter view's.
Neutral  cheers xhosa
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 7:59 pm

Carey and Harvard.
who bungled at
Hlobane. how much
cattle was actually
' lifted ' who got
what?..
Back to top Go down
kopie



Posts : 249
Join date : 2013-06-01

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 8:06 pm

I would like to chip in with one or two fairly obvious and long argued disagreements.

1. Was Chelmsford right right to split his force prior to Isandhlwana?

2. Was the loss of Isandhlwana Chelmsford's fault? Or was it Durnford's fault?

3. Did Lord Chelmsford scapegoat a dead man (Durnford) for the loss of Isandhlwana in order to save his own neck?
Back to top Go down
impi

impi

Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 40

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 11:39 pm

Did the Zulus really intend to attack on the 23rd Jan.


Why did Chelmsford really stop Harness from moving to the camp ?




Why did Chelmsford want Harness on the panel of the court of enquiry ? 
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyFri Nov 01, 2013 11:52 pm

impi.yes! Very Happy  could fill the page with a lot
of these Suspect  question was the
' cover up ' a pre thought contingency
stratagem. Hmmm. xhosa
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2013 4:19 am

dlancast wrote: ".... confusing to get at the real truth of the matter (That is if even possible)."

This is true dlancast, the more you read, the less you know, because like many other battles, 99% of authors copy each other ...

Not counting, the authors having written of the .....

You just have to read the books of Messrs. David Jackson and Julian Whybra and thou shalt make savings of time and money by being as close to the truth ...

Cheers

Pascal

Back to top Go down
24th

24th

Posts : 1851
Join date : 2009-03-25

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2013 8:41 pm

Ian Knight's books would be the best bet!
Back to top Go down
Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Posts : 2583
Join date : 2009-04-24

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2013 9:16 pm

Admin. Can we stop this dropping of authors names, and who writes the best books. Looking historically the only thing this achieves is bringing discussions to a halt. Use their material to base an argument, but not to score brownie points. John young, never pluggs his book, he just joins in the discussions and produces excellent photographs. There are no books out there that can tell us what happen at Isandlwana. We already know. Jackson's maybe the best to some, but his book can't tell us anything other books can't. 

Springboks app, gives a better overview of the battlefield and who was where, than any book I have!
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob

Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2013 10:24 pm



Springboks app, gives a better overview of the battlefield and who was where, than any book I have![/quote]
Bonsoir,
Maybe, YOU haven't got the " Best" books? Very Happy 
( no offense for Springboks).
Cheers.
Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7086
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 52
Location : Down South.

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2013 10:32 pm

Ymob  Which one would you recommend. I would be interesting in one that gives photographic views of the battlefield, with a detailed overview of what took place at that particular point.
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyMon Nov 04, 2013 11:17 pm

cstg, just curious, but are you a book
collector? there is no reason, of course
why you should be, your sources are as
valid as any, but fredric's repost made
me smile,then wonder. cheers xhosa
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob

Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Nov 05, 2013 1:39 am

I would be interesting in one that gives photographic views of the battlefield, with a detailed overview of what took place at that particular point.[/quote]


Bonsoir Littlehand,

For the battle of Isandhlwana, I am agree with "Chelsmfordthescapegoat", "Springboks" can made this sort of books -Seriously.
One day, it seems to me that Springbok had said that he is writing "a different book" on this battle...
There is on the web, a "free" site that gives many photographic views of the battlefield and describes what took place at that particular point (with only few errors). Sorry, at this moment, i don't recall the link.
For me, there is not "this sort of book" specific on the battle of Isandhlwana.
On this subject, il only have a copy of "sort of guidebook" to the AZW battlefields as:
"The illustraded guide to the AZW" by John Laband and Paul Thompson;
"Then and Now" by Ian Knight;
"Guidebook to the AZW battlefields" by David Rattray;
-Two booklets: "Isandlwana" and "Rorke's Drift" by Ian Knight and Ian Castle (collection: Battleground south africa).

For "books" (and not essay) on the battle of Isandhlwana, it's a very delicate question (and answer).
- "The Hill of the Sphinx" by FWD Jackson (academic research);
-Zulu Rising"(and the "silver book" for the photos) by Ian Knight ;
-For the "debate": "Zulu victory" by Ron Lock and Peter Quantrill;
- For the "fiction": (no offense)"How can men ..." by Mike Snook and "The washing of the spears" by Morris.

After, they are books interesting on "specific point"of the battle of Isandhlwana:
-On the losses and survivors: Whybra, Young, Holme;
- On the Zulu: Laband-Knight-Smith...
- On the NNC:Thompson-Smith...
- On Durnford:Drooglever, Snook...
- On the 24th : Gon...
- On Chelsmford- Laband...
- On the NMP: Holt;
- On diaries, journals or comtemporary sources: HARFORD, HAMILTON BROWNE, NEWHAM-DAVIS, HALLAM-PARR, CURLING, SMITH-DORRIEN, (MOODIE, EMERY)...
- etc....
I suppose Sonia Clarke is a very good author (two books too expansive for me!!!).
It's just an opinion.


Cheers.

Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7602
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Nov 05, 2013 6:03 am

Theres a couple of different ways of looking at the Battlefields.
1)For the person who wants to know the battlefield and where everything took place in chronological order with effectively a diorama. Then the more photos and maps the better.

2)Then there is the more serious/studious that wants to know WHY not Where. The minutae of decisions, who made them, why they were made.

3)Then there are the speculative who attempt to find solutions to fit the puzzles.

The books that are often quoted can be slotted into those categories. My app was born out of this forum and the numbers of members that wont ever get to the battlefields and so need a more visual picture of the events. I would therefore fit into the first category I suppose. As would Ian Knights: Then and Now and the various battlefield guides.

For the second, there are the really serious publications from Whybra, Jackson, Knight Smith et al.

The third would encompass the likes of Snook Quantrill etc.

Every one of those 3 are important in trying to get a view of this bloody battle. But I don't believe you can compare one section with another, they all fill a void.

Ymob
No offence taken mate. Salute 
Back to top Go down
Guest
Guest



Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 am

Everyone's opinion, but to save time and money, and I always say to those who say contacts me, or come see to my hordes of figures, if they want to imitate me or if they simply are interested by the Zulu war, they must purchase priority "Hill of the Sphinx" and all that Julian has published, so they save time and money ...

I show them these books and when they see that they are in, they all regret all their purchases of precedents books on this war ...

After having contacted me, like many, they realize that they have put the cart before the horse ...

This is where it ends ...

Regarding color photos ... Too bad there is not have to get the possibility of color pictures in 1879 ...

We could compare them with those made in XX and XXI th centuries, still a good opportunity to laugh ...

This is where it ends ...

Pascal
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob

Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Nov 05, 2013 10:59 am

Ymob
No offence taken mate.
Salute [/quote] 
 
 
Bonjour Springbok,
 
No problem for me...and I am totally agree with you!!!
And your project of a "different book" on the battle of Isandhlwana?
 
Cheers.
 
Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Guest
Guest



Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors EmptyTue Nov 05, 2013 3:08 pm

In fact color photos on the battlefields in Zululand, there are plenty on the internet ...

No utilities except for the South African tourism, because the battlefields of 1879, should no longer have great things to do with photos taken at the end of the twentieth century and the XXIst century...
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty
PostSubject: Re: Top points of disagreement between historians/authors   Top points of disagreement between historians/authors Empty

Back to top Go down
 
Top points of disagreement between historians/authors
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: