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» Experiences During the Zulu War
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» The Case for an Attempt to Save the 2-24th Colours
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» Francis Shirley Russell 14th Hussars
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» Soldier: 99th Regiment
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» 1/24th Soldiers first names required
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» 2nd Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment, September 1879
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» Rorke's Drift: Corp. Key, Ptes. John Jones and Lynch
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» Brave Natal Volunteer. Any ideas who he is?
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» Private Arthur Wood, 3rd Dragoon Guards.
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» Surgeon-Lieutenant-Colonel D. B. Brown.
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» Sir Henry Evelyn Wood VC, GCB, GCMG
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» Zulu War Trivia and Quiz
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» The Natal Mounted Police have almost been forgotten.
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» TV tonight - Tue 9 Feb 2021
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» Major-General Sir Ronald Bertram Lane
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» Surgeon-Major HENRY JAGOE, M.B
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» Harts Military Lists N.L.S. Index search page numbers. A useful list.
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» Lieutenant-Colonel David Campbell Williamson.
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» JOHN MILLER THE SOLDIE
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 A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.

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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7077
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Location : Down South.

A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  Empty
PostSubject: A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.    A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 12:19 am

End of Hooks account
A curious thing was that a civilian named Byrne, who had taken part in the defence and was killed, was buried outside the cemetery wall. I don't know why, except that he was not a regular soldier."

Corporal Anderson was shot in the back while running away and dropped dead.

Was Anderson buried within the walls of the cemetery Question 

I understand Hooks comment regarding Byrne not being a regular soldier, but considering the circumstances, what this not just an act of total disrepect to a Brave man, who stood shoulder to shoulder during the defence of Rorkes Drift.

Is it known who made the decision to bury Byrne outside the cemetery. Hook had obvisouly give it some thought! And found it odd!
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A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  Empty
PostSubject: Re: A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.    A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 12:47 am

there are no separate grave's,
there all gathered in!
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90th

90th

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Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: A curious thing ! says Henry Hook    A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 3:08 am

Hi Les.
Yes , I think we've mentioned this before a long time ago , I seem to remember someone saying that all the bodies are together in the Graveyard enclosure , including some other British troops who died after the Zulu War .
90th Salute 
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Kenny



Posts : 433
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

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PostSubject: Re: A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.    A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 7:36 am

There is another cemetery in a copse on the Zululand side of the drift. Those who died of fever after the battle together with some civilians from a later period are buried there. There are no identifying headstone for the soldiers - it is thought that nevertheless they may have been commemorated on the 24th memorial at Rorke's Drift. This cemetery is on the other side of the river where the (newest) Rorke's Drift Lodge is located.
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A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  Empty
PostSubject: Re: A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.    A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 11:21 am

Hiya kenny,90th, Salute 
thanks for that. xhosa
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  Empty
PostSubject: Re: A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.    A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 11:54 am

This is a view from Fort Melvill. The large circular thatched building is the Rorkes Drift Lodge. Opposite side of the river are the trees that surround the graves, of photo to the right is the mission station/battlefield. Im not to sure that any of the RD defenders, Byrne, is buried in that graveyard. It was established a bit later than the RD battle for deaths that occurred through disease etc.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Cheers
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: A curious thing says Henry Hook    A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 11:58 am

Hi Springy .
Excellent work that man ! . Another excellent photograph , you should've been a freelance photographer ! LOL Salute 
Cheers 90th.
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littlehand

littlehand

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A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  Empty
PostSubject: Re: A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.    A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 12:24 pm

Kenny wrote:
There is another cemetery in a copse on the Zululand side of the drift.  Those who died of fever after the battle together with some civilians from a later period are buried there.  There are no identifying headstone for the soldiers - it is thought that nevertheless they may have been commemorated on the 24th memorial at Rorke's Drift.  This cemetery is on the other side of the river where the (newest) Rorke's Drift Lodge is located.  
So are we saying Byrne's remains we're dug-up and placed in a grave on the other side of the river.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  Empty
PostSubject: Re: A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.    A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 2:03 pm

LH
I cant really believe that would have happened, as far as Im aware that cemetery is as a result of Fort Melvill and after. I would be more than happy to be corrected. Unfortunatly the day I wandered over there I didn't have my camera but there are no named graves.
Kenny
Whats the motivation behind your thoughts on Byrne?

90th
I am, all my photos are free agree 
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7702
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Location : Cape Town South Africa

A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  Empty
PostSubject: Re: A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.    A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 4:24 pm

Im back in town on Monday and I will do some checking but I have a feeling that the cemetery is on the site of a pre AZW hostelry.

Cheers
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Kenny



Posts : 433
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PostSubject: Re: A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.    A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 4:25 pm

I have 30 names of those who died at Rorke's Drift during and after the battle.  There is possible one native death (making a possible 31).  The Times of Natal (23 April 1879) quotes 25 graves at Rorke’s Drift.  There are 28 names on the memorial plus Thorne (6th Dragoons) (drowned 25 October 1884) who has a separate headstone in the corner of the RD cemetery (making 29 names).  The missing name from the memorial is Trooper Dixon of Newscastle Rifles who drowned on 12 January 1879.  So it is possible that 3 of those on memorial are buried on the other side of river if the Times of Natal report is correct. Hope I have the maths correct.
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littlehand

littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.    A curious thing! Say's Henry Hook.  EmptySat Nov 23, 2013 6:19 pm

Barrie's posted in another thread, may hold some clues to others killed but not listed.

"I presume this report I quoted becomes apocryphal  because you have never heard of it before??
So, my initial source, is Trooper Henry Lugg's statement to the  NMP C.O.I, in which this event was reported and, as well, in Tpr Clarke's war diaries, vol 1 page 168. Clarke was part of Chelmsford's relieving force and in attendance at RD, with  Dartnell on 23/01. When he arrived there early am that day he met his friend  Trooper Henry Lugg who told him, in graphic detail all that he had seen that terrible night.  Clarke saw all of the dead mutilated bodies of the defenders and questioned  Lugg who said that he witnessed this  particular killing  but said the man was alive at the time. Now Bancroft ( ISBN 1868421848)  picks up on this particular story and repeats it , but said that the man had already died.  
In terms of the general Zulu brutalities (butchery) at  RD many AZW authors mentioned it. Holt on page 69 of History of the Mounted Police of Natal does too, Bancroft mentions it many times throughout his work and Greaves on page 183 and  Glover amongst others, on page 110. Some of these authors quote Hitch's account as their source.
Now, one error reappearing in many contemporary writings on the AZW, and of academic value only, was that 375 enemy were reported  killed at the parapets at RD. This number was the count done on the first day (23/01) by the burial parties. However on the morning of the 24th another 7 dead were found under torn down roof thatch in the kraal, thus increasing the real head count of enemy kia to 382. Many others who were carried by their comrades or crawled away and expired, are not included in that tally"
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