Latest topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:16 pm by John Young » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:53 am by John Young » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jul 20, 2024 12:17 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. 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New topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:53 pm by miklew » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 21, 2024 12:30 pm by darthvaix » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jul 19, 2024 1:29 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:52 pm by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am by 61MECH » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN |
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| | Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th | |
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kopie
Posts : 249 Join date : 2013-06-01
![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:17 pm | |
| Chard categorically states "6 members of the 1-24th" in his first report as having been survivors of the RD action. In his second report, he goes further and names the six. One is the surviving 1083 Pte M .Jenkins, that we now all believe to have been incorrectly identified as the "wrong" Jenkins, because 1083 was killed at Isandhlwana.
Or was he?
Let's assume for a moment that Chard was not entirely the bumbling fart that so many have assumed he was. Let us say that the Jenkins who saved his life at the wall REALLY WAS 1083 Jenkins, and Chard made no mistake in his identification.
What proof is there that 1083 Watkin Jenkins was actually killed at Isandhlwana, other than the fact that we can find little record that he is still with us after 23-1-1879, other than the Chard roll which quite clearly indicates 1083 Jenkins was alive on the 23rd.
What if after the action at RD, return to PMB etc, that he meets and falls for a nice SA girl, deserts, changes his name and lives happily ever after in Natal? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | kopie
Posts : 249 Join date : 2013-06-01
![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:24 pm | |
| I note no one has responded to this Q in almost 24 hours.
I apologise if this question was a remarkably stupid one, so I won't be offended if the thread is deleted Admin! |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4021 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:32 pm | |
| I'll respond. The man you seek appears in the Isandhlwana casualty return. He no longer appears in the pay and muster rolls either - a pretty positive sign that he was no more - otherwise he'd be claiming backpay! A more interesting but similar question involves Corp. W. Anderson of the NNC kia at RD. There was also a Corp. W. Anderson kia at Isandhlwana. Were they two different men? Or was Anderson (perhaps a patient) kia at RD but his battalion commanding officer assumed he had been kia with his coy at Isandhlwana and entered him among the casualties? Were they in fact one and the same man but he was entered on both Isandhlwana and RD casualty rolls? I've never been able to resolve this with absolute certainty. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | kopie
Posts : 249 Join date : 2013-06-01
![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:07 pm | |
| Thank you for that response Julian!
wrt Watkin Jenkins, he certainly disappears after the 22nd January. Clearly, if he had fought at and survived RD, as implied in the Chard (and other earlier rolls), we would expect to have seen him on the pay rolls etc as you say. My question was that if those early rolls WERE correct, and he had gone AWOL soon after the defence of RD, would there be any record of that? Or would his disappearance have been assumed, much more conveniently, to have been KIA Isandhlwana? Far fetched I know, even more so given the weight of evidence that shows the surviving Jenkins to have been David and far, far more likely that a mistake had been made in the number assigned to this survivor in the earliest roll of defenders; but just a bit of fun! |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | kopie
Posts : 249 Join date : 2013-06-01
![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:12 pm | |
| wrt Cpl Anderson, a very interesting question, yes. Are there any muster rolls, pay rolls or other records of any kind relating to the NNC of this period? Who is the leading authority on the NNC? Often if there are two people of the same name, they are usually distinguished in some way in writte records. Cheers |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4021 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:00 pm | |
| Well, yes, it would have gone on his service record. He would have been pursued as having gone AWOL but realistically there was nowhere he could go AWOL, not starting from RD or Isandhlwana. Re Anderson - distinctions were not made in colonial records in the same way as they were in British ones. Thompson is pretty much top dog on Africans and the NNC but the authority varies according to the colonial unit.
Last edited by Julian Whybra on Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | John
![John](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/21-9.jpg)
Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK
![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:13 pm | |
| - kopie wrote:
- Thank you for that response Julian!
wrt Watkin Jenkins, he certainly disappears after the 22nd January. Clearly, if he had fought at and survived RD, as implied in the Chard (and other earlier rolls), we would expect to have seen him on the pay rolls etc as you say. My question was that if those early rolls WERE correct, and he had gone AWOL soon after the defence of RD, would there be any record of that? Or would his disappearance have been assumed, much more conveniently, to have been KIA Isandhlwana? Far fetched I know, even more so given the weight of evidence that shows the surviving Jenkins to have been David and far, far more likely that a mistake had been made in the number assigned to this survivor in the earliest roll of defenders; but just a bit of fun! [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Good point Kopie!! Jenkins attempted to let his family believe he had been at Isandlwana? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4021 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:13 am | |
| John How exactly? Was he clairvoyant? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Chelmsfordthescapegoat
![Chelmsfordthescapegoat](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/24-34.jpg)
Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24
![Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:53 pm | |
| John is not two different people? His name is "1083 Watkin Jenkins" |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | | Pte 1083 Watkin Jenkins, 1-24th | |
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