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 Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller

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Manningham Buller

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Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller Empty
PostSubject: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyMon Feb 10, 2014 7:29 pm

Present at Iandhlwana and ADc? to Lord Chelmsford.
(Sadly not shown and the usual photographs of Chelmsford and staff Officers)
Accompanied Maj Dartnell and Lonsdale along with Maj Gossett on the recce prior to the battle but returned to camp during the early evening of the 21st Jan. How much influence does anyone think their report had to influence Chelmsford in moving his force during the early hours of the 22nd.
His links to the AZW become rather obscure afterwards but he certainly stayed and may have been present at Ulundi.
Can anyone confirm what he might have been doing during the later invasion?
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyMon Feb 10, 2014 7:42 pm

Hiya, see Mack and Shad. page 316
xhosa2000  Salute 
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyMon Feb 10, 2014 8:40 pm

Bt, Major E.H. Buller Rifle Bde.
Served during the war as ADC to Lord Chelmsford and
Commandant at Hd-Qrs, Acted as Staff Officer to the
2nd Brigade, Etshowe Relief Column, and was present
in that capacity at the Battle of Ginghilovu.

Was one of the Officers referred to by Lord Chelmsford
in his concluding Dispatch as having specially assisted him
during the recent operation's. ( Brevet of Major )

Hope this helps a bit, its his entry taken from the book
mentioned above, i presumed you had/access to a copy.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyMon Feb 10, 2014 11:37 pm

Hi all,
No photo of him?
Cheers

Frédéric
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Manningham Buller

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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 11, 2014 9:42 am

Hi Frederick and Xhosa
Thanks for the information regarding EH M-Buller. He is buried in our local Churchyard at Dilhorne in Staffordshire. Unfortunately he came to a rather sad end on Woolwich North railway station on Nov 8 1888. Returning from a night out at the United Services club in London he sat on a seat facing away from the cold night wind. On arriving he alighted on the wrong side of the train only to fall onto the line and was struck by a train approaching the opposite platform. He survived for three days before dying. I do have several pics of him, obtained from the Royal Green Jackets museum in Winchester. Buller was a keen photographer himself and they hold his own album which you can peruse.
He was the sixth son of Sir Edward Buller 1st Baron Dilhorne Liberal MP for  Staffs. Some of the other sons all served (Rifle Brigade), for some time in the army and they rose to prominent positions themselves. Once I have learned how to attach a pic to my post I will upload. Thanks once again.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 11, 2014 9:51 am

How do I attach a pic...any help appreciated. cant find the attachment upload button????
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Manningham Buller

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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 11, 2014 10:25 am

Ref Ernest H. M-Buller
I have a somewhat pet theory on his role with Major Gossett that set in part the ball rolling for Isandhlwana. Returning to camp from the recce with Dartnell, one can only speculate that they painted a rather dire picture of their encounter with the Zulu impi. As neither had any experience of what to expect or how the zulu fought, their knowledge of communicating intelligence was based upon military experienced gained on other fronts. For Buller he had served in British (NorthAmerica) Canada but this was a totally new encounter and how much stress he placed on what he saw can only be speculation. However in Dartnells own words he states in his memoirs of the Natal Mounted Police..that he intended to attack the following day and NEVER requested reinforcements'.
Given HIS own experience being far greater why would someone with approx 100 mounted soldiers, attack an impi that exceeded him by over 100 to 1. I cannot believe that someone with his background would contemplate such folly.

Rather I suspect that Dartnell felt capable of attacking a much smaller force with the men he had but even if the number was 2000 (Regiment) or less it still looks like an amazingly large number to an inexperienced officer like Gossett and Buller. Consequently I offer the theory that they both contributed to Chelmsford's own too confident and rather arrogant attitude that he could split the force and deal a singular and early defeat.
Chelmsford couldn't move the whole camp as their speed would have been far too slow. Bear in mind it took almost 7 days to travel the 10 miles to establish Isand and knowing the terrain I can well understand the difficulties he had. Thus he made this strategic blunder only to find the zulus gone!
I suppose ownership for the defeat was consequent by a series of events that compound the whole BUT as CIC the buck stops with the Officer Commanding. It was and still is in the army!
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 11, 2014 9:59 pm

Welcome to the forum. If you want you can email to me @ phzuluwar7@gmail.com. I will post image under your name.  agree  Or you can use photobucket.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 11, 2014 11:49 pm

Manningham, are you able to confirm, if this is Ernest Henry Manningham BULLER

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Uncertain person. Possibly Ernest Henry Manningham BULLER Lieut Colonel of the Rifle Brigade 24 May 1839 - 8 Nov 1888, MI at Dilhorne, STF
Photo from a Carte de Visite by Maull & Co, 187a Piccadilly and 62 Cheapside, London. Ref. No 87187. Inscribed "Ernest 5"
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyWed Feb 12, 2014 12:49 am

Of course a rather more recent Manningham Buller reached a far more exalted position - intelligence runs in the family!

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyFri Feb 14, 2014 8:26 pm

Littlehand. You do indeed have a pic of Ernest Henry!
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyFri Feb 14, 2014 8:32 pm

Can anyone help with background to a soldier called William Henry Hickin of the 24th Reg who was killed at Isandhlwana age 25 . Looking for a picture to match up with a long forgotten memorial we have in N. Staffs church
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyFri Feb 14, 2014 9:04 pm

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Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller.
Photo supplied by forum member "Manningham Buller"
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyFri Feb 14, 2014 9:52 pm

i'm confused ( again ) LH is right or
wrong! and the photographer is in
Adelaide?
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyFri Feb 14, 2014 9:55 pm

littlehand wrote:
Manningham, are you able to confirm, if this is Ernest Henry Manningham BULLER

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Uncertain person. Possibly Ernest Henry Manningham BULLER Lieut Colonel of the Rifle Brigade 24 May 1839 - 8 Nov 1888, MI at Dilhorne, STF
Photo from a Carte de Visite by Maull & Co, 187a Piccadilly and 62 Cheapside, London. Ref. No 87187. Inscribed "Ernest 5"

It appears it's not !
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PostSubject: William Henry Hicken    Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyFri Feb 14, 2014 11:11 pm

Manningham - Buller the following is from ' The Noble 24th ' by Norman Holme , unfortunately I dont have a photo of him .
'' Hicken , William Henry .25B / 747 Private . Correct name appears to be Hickin . Born at Hanley , Stoke-on-Trent , Staffordshire
( Not Confirmed by original documentary sources ) . Enlisted 5/1/76 . Joined 1st 24th , South Africa 2/8/77 . In the now derelict church of St .John at Hanley there is a large stained glass memorial window with the inscription '' To the glory of God and the memory of William Henry Hickin , 24th Regiment who fell at Isandhlwana , South Africa , 22nd January 1879 , aged 25 years ''. The future of the church is uncertain and the exterior of the window is now bricked - over ( Information provided by Messrs. K.Roy and R.Smith ) . Effects recorded for claim by next-of- Kin . South Africa Medal with Clasp 1877-78-79.
Cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 8:27 am

Yes That is the memorial picture I have Of Pte Hickin and thanks for providing the background details. Its a large stained glass memorial window as you describe...sadly now covered over. fortunately I got this picture some 20years ago and dont know whether it stillexists in the church fotr since that time it has been allowed to fall into disrepair... Sad really!
No information exists that I have found as to who commissioned the window but a renewed search next Wed might shed some light on the subject. I will publish if I discover more.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 8:49 am

The picture shown by Littlehand is indeed Ernest Henry M Buller as I have others taken from the same set shown. Apologies for the delay in getting back
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 9:19 am

Xhosa. yes the picture indicates the company of George and Walton photographers late Tuttle & Co of 65 Rundle St. Adelaide. I am still working on this one as his Army record does not indicate he served down under even though there is a Rundle part of the Aus (Adelaide)
Alternatively there is an Adelaide in Canada, Middlesex County Ontario where we do know he served British North America). This picture was taken from his own photographic album held by the R. Green Jacket Museum in Winchester so its something of a mystery to solve. I'm on the case so will let you know
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 10:10 am

Hi yet again

Army records indicate the following so if anyone can shed any further light?

Born 1839/40 Hanover SQ. St Georges Middlesex London / Country Seat Dilhorne, Staffordshire

1855 27/5 Ensign Rifle Brigade.....Winchester
1859 promoted Lieutenant on Full pay 1st Batt
1861 13/12. British North America (Canada)
1863 ...Hamilton Montreal
1867 ...Return to England ?
1867 26/7 Bengal India
1868 Captaincy confirmed from promtion date on 20/2/67 3rd Batt
1871 Bombay attached dept 1st Batt
1872 returned to England 1st Jan Portsmouth 3rd Batt
1874 Winchester
1875 Aldershot
1876 Chatham
1877 Shorncliffe
1878 Woolwich
1879 attached ADC to Chlemsford Cape Colony. Isandhlwana Ginginolovu, Eshowe Ulundi
later Evelyn Wood as Brt Major
1880 Dublin Ireland
1881 Brevit Major serving Curragh (29th Nov 1879)
1882 3rd Batt 1st July Major
1883 Dep Ass Adj QMG Malta
1886 Lt Col (14th June 1885) 4th Batt
1888 Lt Col 2nd Batt (transfer 1st July 87)
1888 Nov 8th Accident under train Woolwich dockyard (survived for 3 days)
Buried Dilhorne Staffordshire


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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 10:23 am

Manningham Buller,

Just to give you a time-frame for your photograph/avatar, he is wearing the frock-coat of an officer serving in a Staff position post-1881. That style of coat was somewhat out of vague even at that time especially for Line officers serving on the Staff; although other Departments and Corps did retain it into 1890's. It is more than feasible that he may have had his pre-1881 coat altered to keep up with the Dress Regulation changes - why waste a perfectly good coat.

Personally, I thinks this gives a very narrow time-frame possibly when he was serving as the Deputy Assistant Adjutant Quartermaster-General on Malta circa 1884/5. Looking at the style of mounting on the card that Admin has posted I would say that is possibly a retaken photograph of a photograph, which might account for photographer's address.

Just my thoughts.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 10:27 am

Manningham Buller,

Just to add to the service record - which you had posted whilst I was composing my uniform reply - Hart's Army List for 1885, records that he returned to South Africa in 1881 on Wood's Staff in the wake of the defeats of late 1880/early 1881 in the 1st Anglo-Boer War.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 12:21 pm

Many thanks John for the most useful information. Possibly a pic of a pic. Never thought of that?
Waiting for a response for the photographers location. Many thanks once again. Yes you are correct regarding the 1st Boer War. I have just consulted my notes again made back in 02. The possibility that he never left SA...I just wonder?
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 4:55 pm

Manningham Buller,

William Nutting Tuttle, was an American established a studio in Elizabeth Street, Sydney, Australia. I can only assume that George Walton was a former employee who started his own business at what was the former premises of Wivell & Co., Photographers, 65 Rundle Street, that company is listed in the local business directories for 1888-89.

1890 seems a good start date for the photograph, obviously that is two years after Ernest's death, the dark colour of the card smacks of 1890's to me.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 7:52 pm

Cheers for that sounds very plausible other than why bother to make a copy? Curious somewhat
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 7:58 pm

Manningham Buller,

Where there any relatives out there at the time?

It was quite a common practice to re-photograph images if access to the original photographer's plates were no available, so that they could be passed to other family members or friends. I've got a few in my own photographic archive.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 8:10 pm

Further to what you suggest I discover you are totally correct in your assumption. The firm of George and Walton of Christchurch New Zealand had connections with the business of Tuttle &co Adelaide Australia in that it was owned by Eden George and Henry John Walton. Walton was a business partner of Tuttle's in Australia and his brother Thomas James Walton bought Tuttle's Adelaide studio, running it as George and Walton there before it was bought back by Tuttle.
The timing you place on this also correlates to the late 188os after or at the very least just prior to the death of Ernest so the assumption that this was reprinted post mortem makes logical sense. He most certainly did not travel to the Australian Colonies given the known army records.
Many thanks for the effort in this piece of research. Most enjoyable...shame is doesn't tell us by whom and why
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 8:14 pm

I have another photograph in my collection of him with his brother officers in the Rifle Brigade but I will need the Administrators to publish. That might be a good challenge for you to date? Coming soon on this thread. Cheers for now
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 9:30 pm

Manningham Send it over. Its an Interesting thread.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 10:36 pm

Admin! who is that suspicious looking desperado
wielding his weapon?.  scratch 
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 10:44 pm

You wouldn't want that tap dancing on your ribcage  Shocked 

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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 10:49 pm

you know that! that's straight through
with a lot to spare.  Salute 
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySun Feb 16, 2014 7:16 pm


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Here is a good close up. looking at his army records I think the Rifle Brigade Officer pic in 'walking out dress' must have been taken (if in England c 1867?). see what others say!
 Photo by Manningham Buller.

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As requested are a couple of pics concerning the Officers of the 1st Btn Rifle Brigade.
M. Buller and brothers, home in Dilhorne. 

Would be great to identify if any of the guys also served during the AZW and endeavour to give an approx date for the pic. M. buller is the small guy on the back row. So therefore post 1855...figure my best guess 1860 onwards???
Photo and text by Manningham Buller.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptySun Feb 16, 2014 8:15 pm

Manningham Buller,

1867 is a fairly good guess in my opinion.

Alfred Warren was promoted to Lieutenant-Colonel of 1st Battalion, The Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own) on 3rd August 1866. The patrol jacket that many of the officers of the group are wearing was introduced for service also in 1866.

By 1868 Lieutenant-Colonel Claude (or Claud in some accounts) Thomas Bourchier, V.C., had left the 1st Battalion and was serving with the 4th Battalion.

So 1867 looks good to me.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 18, 2014 3:16 pm

Good afternoon. I am trying to source a photograph of Colonel Ernest Buller for a reprint of "The Road to Ulundi". I see that there are a few images on these pages. May I have the permission of the owner of them to use one in the reprint? Regards,
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 18, 2014 4:32 pm

Hi Ken
I posted the pictures which I accessed from the Royal Green Jackets Museum for my research and personal use. You may use the one in the frock coat which I sent earlier. please acknowledge receipt from the Museum in your footnotes and also myself please . L.Wood. Staffordshire.
Best of luck with the book.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 18, 2014 4:54 pm

I am trying to source a photograph of Colonel Ernest Buller for a reprint of "The Road to Ulundi".

Excuse me! but do you mean a reprint
of North-Crealock's..The Road to Ulundi,  Salute 
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 18, 2014 4:58 pm

Ken
While your around. answer your PM's.  agree 

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 18, 2014 5:21 pm

Les,

That's the limited edition out of the window then!

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 18, 2014 7:00 pm

JY. again, you know me so well!
but, who's going to produce such
a reprint? and in Elephant Folio i
think not..it will no doubt find a
place, but what will it bring to the
table?
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 18, 2014 8:42 pm

John, not a reprint. Over the past 4 years, I have matched each sketch with a photograph taken at virtually the same site. Some have proved to be extremely challenging.
Springbok - I don't appear to have any pm. Could you send me an e-mail?
L Wood - many thanks.
Regards, Ken
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 18, 2014 8:55 pm

Ken,

Don't forget there are a few of us on here who can match the portrait images with contemporary photographs as well.

Here's an example:

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Richard Thomas Glyn.
John Young Collection.

Put him in reefer jacket and you've got the Crealock image.

If it helps just howler!

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 18, 2014 9:12 pm

Thank you John. The only two I'm still struggling to get hold of are Colonel Bellairs and Henry Longcast. Any assistance will be gratefully acknowledged. Regards, Ken
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 18, 2014 9:30 pm

Good afternoon. I am trying to source a photograph of Colonel Ernest Buller for a reprint of "The Road to Ulundi". I see that there are a few images on these pages. May I have the permission of the owner of them to use one in the reprint? Regards,

Sorry, and i'm not in any way trying to be obtuse..but the above
clearly states reprint..you have since qualified that statement. so
i'm left wondering about the title..which will be what? and the comp-
osition you mention that you will be juxtaposing contemporary images
alongside the existing sketches, which sounds interesting but to what
end?. xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyTue Feb 18, 2014 10:44 pm

Ken,

Bill Bellairs from The Graphic 1881.

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Colonel William Bellairs
John Young Collection

Longcast, I have him in a group photograph, late 1879, or the same image as an engraving.

Any use?

Rather than just a rehash of Ron Brown's work, why not add some of his brother's Zulu War works, they are held by The Cameronians Museum, Hamilton, Scotland.

John Y.
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyWed Feb 19, 2014 12:24 am

M.B. your man on campaign.

https://s1297.photobucket.com/user/xhosa2000/media/EBullerRB_zps86a736d6.jpg.html?sort=4&o=14
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyWed Feb 19, 2014 1:14 am

A bit of the bigger picture!.

https://s1297.photobucket.com/user/xhosa2000/library/?sort=4&page=1
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyWed Feb 19, 2014 4:10 am

My apologies to everyone for not responding last night; we are 2 hours ahead of you and it was time to phumula...
Xhosa2000 - nothing final yet. I must apologise for my clumsy wording, but if the project does go ahead, it will not simply be a reprint.
John - many thanks; may I include the pic with due acknowledgement to you and your collection of course? The same would apply to any image of Longcast.
Regards, Ken
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyWed Feb 19, 2014 12:28 pm

Ken, thank you that's fine! i am not
a negative person and i understand
your reticence to fully out line your
forthcoming project!. indeed i look
forward to seeing its fruition.i hope
it will stand out as a worthy addition
to our better understanding of that
fascinating period that some of us
are obsessed with. xhosa
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PostSubject: Re: Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller   Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller EmptyWed Feb 19, 2014 1:15 pm

Les
I saw on your photobucket a photo of isandlwana taken from the North under the lee of the ridge. Shows the start of the village and I think the beggings of St Vincents. Where did you get it?

Cheers

PS man did you get stuffed by the ref last night.
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