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Film Zulu Dawn quote: “Excuse me, my Lord, there's something I must convey to you. I rode along the track down to Rorke's Drift. The sky above is red with fire. Your orders my Lord? Do we move to the drift?”
 
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 James Langley Dalton

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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7622
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: James Langley Dalton   James Langley Dalton EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 8:00 am

I had a rather melancholy moment yesterday. Browsing through an old and dusty file I came across the death certificate for James Langley Dalton. Just reading the notes on the file cover were quite sad. Looked after by the owner of the Grosvenor Hotel he lived in, he left an estate of 6 pounds 13 shillings in cash and 80 pounds worth of clothes and personal effects. Then the government of the day decided to take its share and added insult by adding behind his name VC and then a question mark. Only 8 years after that magnificent effort by him they couldn't really recall what he did!
Really quite sad so another date to remember on the forum 7th January 1887.
So Martin my old mate: A big thank you to the Welshman that revived the story and enticed all of us to look more deeply at the men behind the defence.

'Good on you Stanley Baker, bloody well done.'

Cheers
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90th

90th

Posts : 10156
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: James Langley Dalton VC    James Langley Dalton EmptySat Feb 15, 2014 8:15 am

Hi Springy .
Yes , agree , that's very sad . Good to see governments over time havent changed a great deal have they ! ... P - icks !
90th  Sad 
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

Posts : 2522
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

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PostSubject: Re: James Langley Dalton   James Langley Dalton EmptyWed Mar 19, 2014 2:28 am

Hi springy mate.

Don't see why you would thank Baker for this, he had Dalton portayed as a bit of a la de da whimpish fellow rather than the hero that he was, and just look how he had Hook portayed in the film, Hook's family walked out in disgust when they saw him portayed like that. Baker could have made the film a lot better than he did, but the anti English chip on his welsh shoulder got the better of him and he overdid the welsh stuff, even down to the fact that he incuded welsh names and characters that were not even at RD. He had Bromhead portayed as a 'What Ho! old boy' sort of chap, who was trying to live up to a family reputation. Also ironic that Baker didn't even play the part of a soldier of his own welsh nationality (well, let's face it, there were not that many to choose from where there, and none of them were officers), so he played the part of an Englishman (Lt Chard), who he thought was the main Hero, because Baker had to be the Hero hadn't he? If Baker had made this classic film more factual and honest (including giving the name of the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment correctly), rather than overdoing the welsh nonsense and pretending it was the swb, then this film would have been a lot better. But then again, maybe Baker did get what he wanted (creating a myth), because many gullible people believe this myth and think it was an all welsh regiment called the swb that fought at RD, and judging by the programme shown on TV not long back, even the modern day regiment seems to believe the myth  scratch 

It's time for a remake of this event in history (and also iSandlwana), and it is time that the public were told the truth rather than a load of old hogwash about the regiment being an all welsh regiment (with a few foreigners from England). Remake the film and give the public the facts not the fiction, give them the real name of the regiment and where the vast majority of the men came from, but of course, this might put a dent in some welsh pride, but let's face it, Englands Son's have been denied their rightful Glory for many years, and it's about time that they and their regiment (the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment) got the proper recognition they so rightly deserve.

Hope you are well Frank mate.  Salute 
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: James Langley Dalton   James Langley Dalton EmptyWed Mar 19, 2014 5:45 am

Morning Martin
For all its faults Zulu inspired a whole generation to examine the Anglo Zulu War. As a result of that all those faults have been recognised, and to a degree corrected by modern historians. Without that perspective, we wouldn't be really having this conversation either. So yes Big Hand for Sir Stanley and Cy Enfield. Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.

Cheers MAte
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

Posts : 2522
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PostSubject: Re: James Langley Dalton   James Langley Dalton EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 1:29 pm

Hi Frank.

Yes, the film may well have got many people interested to learn more about the AZW, but it also conned many, many others into believing that the regiment was a welsh regiment with mostly welshmen in it, when in fact it was nothing of the sort. Those who study the AZW and modern historians know that the film is full of faults, and also know that the regiment was not welsh and that most of the defenders at RD were Englishmen, they also know that the real name of the regiment was the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, and not the supposed swb stated in the film. The problem however, is that the gullible general public don't know these facts, and keep on believing all the false welsh nonsense in the film and often quoting it as fact. There are also others who do know the truth, but who just prefer to keep stum and cover the actual facts up, and bask in all the false glory that comes their way, seems that they would rather go along with the lies and the myth than own up to the truth.

If this film (and that of iSandlwana) was remade more to the actual events and facts, it would hopefully deflate some of those ego's and put an end to the myth, but don't hold your breath.

Endfield and (especially Baker), knew what they were doing when they made the film, and as a result, historical facts have been replaced by a welsh myth that has denied the mostly Englishmen and their regiment, the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, of their rightful honour and glory for the defence of RD, so sorry mate, I cannot give Baker and Endfield a big hand (other than to belt them with it).

Some very interesting stuff on the other thread (Chelmsford, Pulleine and Durnford), you, 6pdr and Julian are coming up with some good stuff, keep it up buddy.

Cheers mate.  Salute 
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90th

90th

Posts : 10156
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Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: James Langley Dalton    James Langley Dalton EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 1:39 pm

Great to see you back Martin and you certainly have not lost any of your passion !  Very Happy   Salute 
Cheers MEOCP  agree LOL.
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

Posts : 2522
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

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PostSubject: Re: James Langley Dalton   James Langley Dalton EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 1:51 pm

Hi Gary me old wombat.

Thanks mate, and NO, I will never lose my passion to fight for justice for the old 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment, nor the brave men that fought in its ranks.

Roll on summer, I am getting fed up with this awful weather.

BTW, I got the garden looking some bit like, then the rotton winds came back, but so far my work has survived, phew!

Cheers buddy.  Salute 
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90th

90th

Posts : 10156
Join date : 2009-04-07
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Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: James Langley Dalton    James Langley Dalton EmptyThu Mar 20, 2014 2:20 pm

Hi Martin .
Into Autumn here but still managed to get to 32 deg today ! LOL. Glad the repairs are holding up  agree 
cheers 90th
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