Latest topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:16 pm by John Young » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:53 am by John Young » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jul 20, 2024 12:17 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. 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Collins 214![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 10:57 am by johnman » Baron Von Steitencron![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:10 pm by Julian Whybra » Sgt Joseph Windridge, Defender of Rorke's Drift - Memorial![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:15 am by 90th » Writing advice![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 4:04 pm by Julian Whybra » South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:30 am by rai » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN» Any nominal role of G Coy 2/24th regiment ![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:18 am by Wayne » Bassage Diary![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:31 am by Julian Whybra » Prior to Sihayo's Kraal ![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:19 am by 90th » British Fort Locations![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:40 am by 90th » Sergeant 1064 Tom Hick / Hicks G Company 2/24th Regiment![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:05 am by Julian Whybra » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:31 pm by Mr M. Cooper » Private 25B/279 Henry Sears Bugler E Company 24th Reg. KIA Isandlwana![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:07 pm by gardner1879 » Hamilton Browne's birthday![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jun 21, 2024 9:22 am by Julian Whybra » Zulu "Corps"![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:01 pm by Hobbes » Army Pay Department Personnel![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:49 am by Julian Whybra » Ntshingwayo birth date![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:37 am by Hobbes » Zibhebhu and Cetshwayo's family![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jun 05, 2024 9:11 pm by Julian Whybra » Smith's Store/Hotel![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jun 05, 2024 6:06 pm by Julian Whybra » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. ![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Jun 04, 2024 5:20 pm by Julian Whybra » Shaka iLembe![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:27 pm by Jon84 » Bugler 1415 Thomas Finn / Flin 90th Regiment ![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat May 25, 2024 11:28 am by johnman » Inspector-General Evelyn Richard Hugh Pollard![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue May 14, 2024 10:13 am by ADMIN» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat May 11, 2024 8:01 am by Julian Whybra » Fairlie's Native Police![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu May 02, 2024 9:12 pm by Hobbes |
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New topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:53 pm by miklew » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 21, 2024 12:30 pm by darthvaix » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jul 19, 2024 1:29 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:52 pm by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am by 61MECH » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN |
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| | Cetshwayo and John Dunn | |
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impi
![impi](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/153-96.jpg)
Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44
![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Cetshwayo and John Dunn Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:37 pm | |
| When Cetshwayo was restored, did he and John Dunn meet. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Guest Guest
![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Cetshwayo and John Dunn Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:05 pm | |
| Good question Impi..i don't think many people remember how important Dunn was in the Zulu Kingdom. here he is standing in the centre of the group.. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Guest Guest
![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Cetshwayo and John Dunn Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:08 pm | |
| And the short answer to your question is no! they never talked again!. source.. John Dunn by Ballard, and Cetshwayo and the Three General's, edited by Moodie.. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] xhosa |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Chard1879
![Chard1879](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/107-47.jpg)
Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12
![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Cetshwayo and John Dunn Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:51 am | |
| I wonder if Dunn, was annoyed about Cetshwayo's restoration. Did he feel threaten by him? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Guest Guest
![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Cetshwayo and John Dunn Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:02 pm | |
| Again short answer..everybody but the Usutu were against the restoration. xhosa |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | littlehand
![littlehand](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/25-59.jpg)
Posts : 7076 Join date : 2009-04-24 Age : 55 Location : Down South.
![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Cetshwayo and John Dunn Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:04 pm | |
| Extract from Racialised Masculinity and the Limits of Settlement: John Dunn and Natal, 1879-1883
“The appointment of Dunn as chief was not seen by all as a legitimate extension of active, masculinised authority in Zululand; a vocal contingent within Natal instead asserted that the war had been unjust and a restored Cetshwayo (with considerable British surveillance and civilizing influence) would be a more appropriate means of ordering the former Zulu kingdom. Writing directly to the Earl of Kimberley at the Colonial Office, Dunn argued vehemently against Cetshwayo’s reinstatement, asserting that the return of the deposed monarch would have immediate implications for British reputation as well as claims to sovereignty over the region: I beg also to bring to your Lordship’s notice the injury such a step will be to the prestige of all Englishmen and any English Government in future in this part of Africa, and that it cannot tend to the peace and welfare of the English race, neither of the natives, and will eventually lead to a great deal of bloodshed. In this letter, Dunn insists that Britain’s colonial future is at stake in the debate over Cetshwayo’s restoration. He argues that if the king returns, imperial agents such as Dunn will be unable to fulfil their duties, namely maintaining order and continuing to mark out space for settlement and control Responsibilities uniquely suited to the white British male administrator. In Dunn’s estimation, the return of Cetshwayo threatened to of newly claimed spaces of imperial rule as well as the central logic of British intervention in Zululand itself. Dunn asserts that restoring the king would be a surrender of supremacy in the region, both political and symbolic. By threatening bloodshed and ruin, Dunn recalls the rationale of the initial invasion to maintain the safety and order of Natal and British aims in southern Africa. Dunn then turns from the logic of the invasion to more personal reasons for preventing Cetshwayo’s return:
For myself, I can say that I look upon my territory as my home, and have taken steps for the improvement of it and my people, and should Cetywayo return matters will relapse into their former state. Dunn’s letter emphasises the orientational work of the settler project. Zululand is reconceived as a domestic space to be occupied, it is his home. By reorienting himself as well as the space, Dunn in effect writes himself into the landscape as a chief and father figure To „his people.‟ consequently, he presents settler masculinity not merely as a set of identities but rather as an apparatus to be utilized in an attempt to rationalise the often violent occupation of space that belied the colonial project itself. For Dunn, then, race and gender constituted more than an identity: white masculinity was a tool that served to delineate the spaces of British sovereignty. Dunn himself recounted that following the defeat of the Zulus in 1879, a principal induna, Undhlandaga, announced to the British officers assembled that: Our word is but one we wish no more for a black King we wish to a white one, and the white one we mean is that one (pointing to me) John Dunn. He knows us, and knows our ways and we know him and like him.” The rest of the men then said “our voice is one, we say the same. In Dunn’s retelling, the Zulus recognize and appropriately value his white masculinity, desiring him as a preferable alternative to a black king. This somewhat self-serving remembrance chooses to emphasise Dunn’s power as a white male settler combined with his authority as a cultural interlocutor. Thus, for Dunn, his claims to sovereignty can be enforced through a mobilization of a racialised masculinity that still accounts for his specialised knowledge due to his professed understanding of Zulu culture. Yet, these claims to racialised masculinity could be equally mobilized against Dunn. While imprisoned at Oude Molen in the Cape Colony, the deposed King Cetshwayo groused, “I will not say much of John Dunn; he does not know of the doings of the white man, he lives in the Zulu country, and although he is white he is black like the native; the Zulus could only be ruled by white men proper, and not by men like John Dunn Maneuvering to regain his kingdom, Cetshwayo disparaged his former advisor for the same intimate knowledge that I bid Dunn trumpets. In Cetshwayo’s missive, white masculinity itself is still upheld as the ideal and is paradoxically employed as a juridical force by the Zulu king (in order to indirectly assert his claims to kingship under British authority), yet Dunn is no longer white. He instead has become black through his excessive proximity, and unable to marshal the racialised power that served as the ballast for British sovereign claims over the land and peoples of Zululand. As such, his body is no longer able to pass through the whitened, colonial spaces of the newly conquered. Cetshwayo’s letter argues instead that Dunn, rather than mobilizing his white masculinity, has surrendered it; Dunn’s proximity has led to a blackness that marks him as separate and in marked resistance to the lines of power delineated by a settler state.”
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| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Guest Guest
![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Cetshwayo and John Dunn Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:46 pm | |
| It is of course no coincidence that Dunn received the largest ' Kinglet ' which ran alongside Natal, offering a ' Buffer Zone '. The Zulu King was stitched up at every turn! The racist shite above was for the time quite mild!... xhosa |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 6pdr
![6pdr](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/908-11.jpg)
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Cetshwayo and John Dunn Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:19 pm | |
| - littlehand wrote:
- Extract from Racialised Masculinity and the Limits of Settlement: John Dunn and Natal, 1879-1883
In this letter, Dunn insists that Britain’s colonial future is at stake in the debate over Cetshwayo’s restoration. More like Dunn thought HIS future might be at stake. What a load of self-serving tosh this is. Dunn was a piece of work...but a very, very clever one. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Chard1879
![Chard1879](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/107-47.jpg)
Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12
![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Cetshwayo and John Dunn Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:24 pm | |
| Still what does it matter. John Dunn, done well out of it. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 6pdr
![6pdr](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/908-11.jpg)
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
![Cetshwayo and John Dunn Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Cetshwayo and John Dunn Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:45 pm | |
| Seems that littlehand and Xhosa answered your question quite succinctly. Or were you not asking one? |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | | Cetshwayo and John Dunn | |
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