WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Lance Corporal Robert Eaton NMP
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyYesterday at 6:31 pm by Frank Allewell

» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyMon Sep 21, 2020 1:20 pm by Frank Allewell

» List of identified bodies at Isandlwana
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyThu Sep 17, 2020 5:30 am by John Young

» Defenders of Rorkes Drift
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyWed Sep 16, 2020 6:47 pm by Digger

» Colour Sgt Anthony Clark Booth, VC.
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyTue Sep 15, 2020 6:47 pm by ADMIN

» Cpl John Lyons
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 7:49 pm by Bill8183

» A Case of Mistaken Identity?
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 11:29 am by John Young

» What happened next
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 10:51 am by Springbok

» Surgeon Espine Charles Ward
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyWed Sep 09, 2020 9:38 am by John Young

» 2nd Lieutenant William Lancelot James, 2nd/4th Regiment.
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 2:41 pm by ADMIN

» Explaining Amabutho in one word??
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 11:49 am by SRB1965

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Navy and Royal Marines
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyThu Sep 03, 2020 4:05 pm by Frank Allewell

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Artillery
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyWed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 pm by Catiline63

» Colonel William,Egerton Saunders, C.B
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:46 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant-Colonel David Campbell Williamson.
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:32 pm by ADMIN

» Brigade Surgeon E. J. Boulton
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:02 pm by ADMIN

» Joseph Walter O’Malley Martin. Assistant Surgeon
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:52 pm by ADMIN

» Quarter-Master William London
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:32 pm by ADMIN

» Surgeon Major Henry Lamb
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:19 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant Robert Thomas Graves Lowry
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:13 pm by ADMIN

» Sgt. John Philip Archbell NNC
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 8:43 pm by ADMIN

» Tpr. John Ross Natal Carbineer
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 8:27 pm by ADMIN

» Non-Combat Casualties in Colonial and Native Units
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 11:52 am by Julian Whybra

» Victorian HMS SHAH South Africa Zulu Wars Medal William Morrison Royal Navy
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» South African 1879 Zulu War medal to Corp R Starkey 57th Regiment of Foot
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 3:50 pm by 1879graves

» 2/4th Foot at Hlobane/Kambula
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 4:12 am by 90th

» England's Sons 9th edition
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyWed Aug 26, 2020 6:20 pm by Herbie

» Strange tales from Isandlwana
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Aug 23, 2020 4:25 pm by SRB1965

» Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 5:48 pm by Visitor

» Militaria Sale
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyTue Aug 18, 2020 5:59 pm by Frank Allewell

» Men of the 24th Regiment of Foot - Secunderabad, India 1873
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyTue Aug 18, 2020 12:48 am by 90th

» Malicious website
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Aug 16, 2020 9:06 pm by ADMIN

» Rorkes drift Hotel
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyThu Aug 13, 2020 7:00 pm by robert taylor

» Durnford's medical officer
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyThu Aug 06, 2020 11:36 am by SRB1965

» Charles Sparks - any information available?
Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyThu Aug 06, 2020 9:23 am by Julian Whybra

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Black as Hell, Thick as Grass
Top posters
90th
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
littlehand
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
ADMIN
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
1879graves
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
rusteze
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
John
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
John Young
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
De Passey
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
90th
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
ADMIN
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
1879graves
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
Kenny
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
SRB1965
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
Digger
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
Catiline63
Ernest Alfred Martin Bar_leftErnest Alfred Martin BarErnest Alfred Martin Bar_right 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Adding to the Library
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
Durnford drift Woolfryes henry Natal melvill zulu spalding Prince martini taylor harford Mounted George william gardner 24th Franklin john Police payne Isandlwana Russell smith horse james

 

 Ernest Alfred Martin

Go down 
AuthorMessage
John Carl



Posts : 6
Join date : 2015-01-27

Ernest Alfred Martin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ernest Alfred Martin   Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyFri Jan 30, 2015 10:24 pm

Hello I have just discovered this excellent forum and i am very much hoping there is someone who can help me research my great grandfather's military life in South Africa or at least point me towards possible sources of information. I am more or less starting from scratch with this quest having just one document, a medal and a few tidbits passed down through the family. I have however begun to read about the events at Isandlwana. This is what I have so far:
- his name was Ernest Alfred Martin from Kilburn, London
- I have his discharge document dated 29th April 1882 showing that he joined the Royal Artillery at Aldershot on 12 November 1874 aged 14. He was therefore around 22 when he was discharged "in consequence of his own request on payment of £24...." At the top of the document is written N Battery 4th Brigade (late N Battery 5th Brigade). Ernest is described as a Driver. Of his 7 years and 140 days service, he spent 2 years and 363 days abroad.
- From what I have read up so far including other posts on this forum, N battery 5th Brigade was very much involved in the events around Isandlwana. It seems to be a result of some luck that my great grandfather survived. I am guessing from what I have read so far that when his battery was divided, he and his gun detail among other soldiers were selected to join Lord Chelmsford (?) to search for the Zulu armies while other of his fellow gunners were left to their fate at the Isandlwana camp. I am making this guess based only on deduction because the accounts say that the two gun details which fled the camp had their drivers pulled from their horses and killed.

I would therefore appreciate any help to enable me to confirm my understanding or indeed to correct it. I am further intrigued to understand whether and how Ernest and N5 was involved in any way in the following battle of Ulundi. Once again my reading tells me that only part of, possible only 2 of their 6 guns, took part at Ulundi, the other details being stationed at each of two other locations. Is this correct? Can anyone throw any light on where Ernest was during these later events or guide me to likely sources.

I hope someone in this forum will be able to help me. Many thanks.

John Carl Martin
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10135
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Ernest Alfred Martin Empty
PostSubject: New Members Welcome . E.A.Martin R.A.   Ernest Alfred Martin EmptyFri Jan 30, 2015 11:06 pm

Hi John
I don't wish to be the bearer of possibly bad news , but I've checked the Medal Roll and found the following ..
Driver A.E. Martin 4180 N Battery 5th Brigade , Entitled to the Medal with No Clasp . A No Clasp Medal means the recipient didn't cross the Border into Zululand , if the Roll is correct your forbear served only in Natal . Does the Medal have a Clasp ? , if so , it would be showing one of the following dates ..... 1877-78 , 1877-78-79 , 1879 , or if no clasp , there were 6 of these issued .
Hope this isn't bad news ? Salute
90th
Back to top Go down
John Carl



Posts : 6
Join date : 2015-01-27

Ernest Alfred Martin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ernest Alfred Martin   Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySat Jan 31, 2015 12:57 pm

90th thank you so much for your prompt response and it's detail which sent me scurrying to the glass frame which holds great grandfather's South Africa medal, another one which also appears to belong to him plus my grandfather's and father's medals. Three generations of Royal Artillery men and 15 medals. I think I disappointed my father and grandfather by not following in their footsteps, and hence my slight sense of guilt at not having done so is feeding my great curiosity to find out more about what they did and where. Also to document it all for the next generation. Anyway back to Ernest's medal. This does have a horizontal clasp showing 1879. I have not really examined this closely before but there is an inscription around the edge of the medal which reads "4180 Driv A E Martin 5 B R A" . Without opening the sealed mounting frame I can't examine it more closely or turn it over. The mystery deepens because I have always understood great grandfather to be Ernest Alfred Martin and indeed his discharge document describes him as such. It sounds like an error somewhere along the line but at least 4180 on the medal matches your record! Are you able to take the story any further for me please or to show me where to go to look further. Thank you once again. John
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

Ernest Alfred Martin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ernest Alfred Martin   Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySat Jan 31, 2015 1:19 pm

John

This is from the official medal roll for the 5th Brigade RA in the Zulu War held at the National Archives at Kew.

It is the basis for the information posted by 90th, and I am afraid it confirms what he has said. You will see 4180 Dvr. Alfred Ernest Martin is listed and then a string of No's and Yes's. If he had crossed into Zululand, as the 1879 bar would suggest, it should say "Yes" in the fifth column (as some on the page do). His "Yes" is in the final column only which denotes a medal without a bar.

So, is it a mistake? It could be, but there would usually be an amendment made to the list. Is there any mention of the medal in his discharge papers - what is his other medal? The only way I can think of to perhaps find out more is to take a look at the RA Pay and Muster Books at Kew for this period. They just might show where your GGGrandfather was. You will have to go to Kew to see them though.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Regards
Steve
Back to top Go down
John Carl



Posts : 6
Join date : 2015-01-27

Ernest Alfred Martin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ernest Alfred Martin   Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Feb 01, 2015 4:08 pm

Steve thank you for your post and the extract from the medal roll. The plot thickens! What are the column headings you refer to. I could see Great Grandads number and name albeit called Alfred rather than Ernest and the yes and no entries but what do these mean please. I am very impressed that you have this information at your fingertips. The other medal I am currently trying to identify but without success so far. It has george V on the front side and great Grandads name etched around the rim. The ribbon has three vertical stripes each exactly a half inch width. A light grey centre stripe has a pink stripe either side. Is it possible to upload photos to this website, if so I have a photo of both the South Africa medal with clasp and this second medal. Many thanks to you and 90th for your help. I may well take your advice and go to Kew. In my first post I referred to tidbits about great grandad passed down through the family. The first was his "Zulu war medal" and the second was a related story. One his sons was later based at Woolwich and on Great Grandads visit to him on one occasion he took himself off to tour the RA artefacts held in what I believe was known as the Rotunda. Apparently he came back to my uncles quarter ashen faced that he had seen "his" field gun from his service in South Africa. No idea how he would have known unless the guns had serial numbers and he could remember his! I might also go down to the Firepower museum at Woolwich and see what I can find out there. Thanks once again and good luck to all with your continuing interest and research. Regards John
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

Ernest Alfred Martin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ernest Alfred Martin   Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Feb 01, 2015 4:51 pm

Hi John

Here are the headings on the Medal Roll. I cannot immediately find a George V medal with the ribbon colours you describe - it would have to be after about 1910. The back of it would no doubt say what it was for. You can post photos here if you first upload them to a host site like Photobucket and then use copy and paste to put it into your post. Interesting about the field gun.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Steve
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7585
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Ernest Alfred Martin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ernest Alfred Martin   Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Feb 01, 2015 5:07 pm

Steve
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
The imperial service order was an award for minimum of 16 years civil service, only one I can find with pink and grey equal stripes.

I have a feeling that as it was early 1900s it could be more Edwards reign.
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

Ernest Alfred Martin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ernest Alfred Martin   Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Feb 01, 2015 5:28 pm

Hi Frank

The ribbon looks right but the ISO was a star with crown and initials. Could be the Imp. Service Medal (ISM) which was also a star to start with but became a disc with bust in 1920 - so George V would be OK for that. The only other similar ribbon I have just come across is the Rocket Apparatus Volunteer Long Service Medal, also George V - but doesn't seem very likely!

Regards
Steve
Back to top Go down
John Carl



Posts : 6
Join date : 2015-01-27

Ernest Alfred Martin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ernest Alfred Martin   Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Feb 01, 2015 9:16 pm

Thanks both Steve and Frank, Imperial Service looks like the one and following your prompts I have found an identical medal and ribbon through googling. Thanks also Rusteze for the medal roll headings. I certainly have a mystery to solve. The South African medal has a 1879 clasp so it seems there was either a mistake when the medal roll was completed for my great grandad or he received the clasp by mistake! I need to examine the RA pay and muster books at Kew as Steve suggested earlier. Whatever I find out I will share with the forum as there maybe wider interest. I am also puzzled by the Imperial Service medal if that was issued in 1910 or thereabouts because great grandad left the RA in 1882 and I believe went straight into the prison service! Regards John
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

Ernest Alfred Martin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ernest Alfred Martin   Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Feb 01, 2015 9:36 pm

John

The ISM is a civilian medal and would be for his time with the Prison Service.

Steve
Back to top Go down
90th

90th

Posts : 10135
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Ernest Alfred Martin Empty
PostSubject: Ernest Alfred Martin   Ernest Alfred Martin EmptySun Feb 01, 2015 10:02 pm

Excellent stuff Steve and Springy , good luck John , you certainly have some interesting facts to hopefully unearth , and share with us on here later , once you have done so ! , we all like to put an end to a mystery if we can ! Very Happy
90th Salute
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Ernest Alfred Martin Empty
PostSubject: Re: Ernest Alfred Martin   Ernest Alfred Martin Empty

Back to top Go down
 
Ernest Alfred Martin
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: