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Lord Chelmsford Said .Buller is ‘one of the finest soldiers of the century’, so modest and reticent –that it was difficult to say for what individual deed he had got the Victoria Cross as he had been doing acts worthy of it all along the line
 
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 HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for

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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2263
Join date : 2010-10-22
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HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  Empty
PostSubject: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  EmptyFri Oct 09, 2015 5:07 pm

HALLAM-PARR was with CHELMSFORD's column in the Mangeni the 22 january.
In "Major-General Sir Henry Hallam Parr" (1917) he wrote: "(...) about 1 p.m. [he 22 January] it was decided that the camp at Isandlwana should be struck, and the headquarters advanced to a position selected near the conical hill. The troops at Isandlwana were to march on the morning on the 23rd to the camp near the conical hill, and the troops already in the neighbourhood were to bivouac on the new camping-ground that night". (p.111).

Some interesting points on Chelmsford's mind about the Isandhlwana garrisson for the 23 January?

Cheers.

Frédéric

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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
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HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  Empty
PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  EmptySat Oct 10, 2015 1:02 am

An interesting find Frederic. Does that mean that the order to Pulleine was to move camp to the Conical Hill and not Mangeni? What does that mean for Durnfords force? Hallam-Parr is a credible witness but why does no-one else mention this camp at the Conical Hill?

Steve
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90th

90th

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Location : Melbourne, Australia

HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  Empty
PostSubject: new camp the 23/ 1 / 79   HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  EmptySat Oct 10, 2015 3:23 am

Hi Frederic / Steve
HHP is certainly not referring to the Conical Hill on the plain as I think you may be referring to ? . HHP states they arrived at the conical hill where the force of the previous night had camped at 8.30am , which was 4 hrs after they left iSandlwana ! . I think he's referring to a similar hill in which they proceeded to , or has possibly been a misprint ? . Conical hill on the plain would only have been a few hundred meters from the firing line . Hope this makes sense ? Joker
90th You need to study mo .
PS . In my copy it's on Pages 190-192 .
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  Empty
PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  EmptySat Oct 10, 2015 7:45 am

I would fully agree with 90th.
The 'conical hill in front of iSandlwana is named amaTutshane, the one refered to by HHP is Mdutshane.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
This the Mangeni valley shot from the side of the Gorge. The new camp site is on the right of the photo, straight ahead is Mdutshane, the conical hill refered to. Dartnells night stop is of shot to the left. The ridge that the officers and Chelmsfrod looked back onto the camp runs across the photo from the foot of the hill.
Hope that helps.

Cheers
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ymob

ymob

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HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  Empty
PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  EmptySat Oct 10, 2015 9:12 am

Bonjour,

Mdutshane is without doubt the conical hill described by HP.
As Steve said, HP was a credible witness, a member of the staff, the man who received the famous message of Pulleine at 9.30 a.m.

About Chelmsford's mind, the points are :
-the move of the camp for the 23;
-despite clear signs of a strong enemy presence in the area, CHELMSFORD persisted in keeping its forces divided for the next 24 hours.

Cheers

Frédéric
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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2263
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HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  Empty
PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  EmptySat Oct 10, 2015 9:13 am

Frank, thanks for the picture.
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  Empty
PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  EmptySat Oct 10, 2015 11:25 am

Thanks Gary/Frank

That's a great picture. On the previous page Hallam-Parr says goodbye to his servant who was due to go back to Natal. He replies that he will still be at Isandhlwana when Chelmsford returns as there will now be no wagons going back to Rorke's Drift that day. It sounds chaotic with wagons travelling in both directions. Why would they have been going back given they had only just got there, and with some difficulty.

Steve
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  Empty
PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  EmptySat Oct 10, 2015 11:48 am

Hi Steve
Smith Dorrien was busy getting supplies to iSandlwana from RD. Interestingly if the attack was on the 23rd, most of the supplies, biscuit boxes and mealie bags would have been transported to iSandlwana. Wonder how Chard would have made out?

Cheers
PS Ive got a panorama some where of that whole basin, I will dig out and post it.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

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HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  Empty
PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  EmptySat Oct 10, 2015 11:59 am

There you go Steve.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
This is taken with my back to the foot of Mdutshane straight ahead is the Gorge, to the left on that large flat plain is the camp site. To the right look at the highest hill, just below down the cliff face is a thin rocky ledge with a tree line on the side, that Dartnells camp. To the extreme right is the beginning of the ridge that Chelmsford looked back to the camp with HHP etc. Carry on round to the left and it leads onto the upper valley where the skirmishing took place late 21st and early 22nd. Travel far enough up the valley and you get to iSiphezi and the site of the Zulu camp of the night of the 20th and also Chelmsfords breakfast spot.
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rusteze

rusteze

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HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  Empty
PostSubject: Re: HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for    HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  EmptySat Oct 10, 2015 12:04 pm

Ah, the old biscuit box and mealie bag defence strategy. The beauty of that approach to fortifications is that you can eat them when you've done!

Steve
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90th

90th

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HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  Empty
PostSubject: Hallam - Parr ; New Camp 23/1/79   HALLAM-PARR: new camp the 23/01 for  EmptySat Oct 10, 2015 12:12 pm

Hi Frank
Thanks for posting the excellent pics , much appreciated by all .
90th Very Happy Joker
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