WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Sickness among Crealock's men
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyToday at 4:52 pm by Hobbes

» Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse Artillery
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyTue Apr 09, 2024 5:20 pm by Kenny

» Brevet Major W.R.B. Chamberlin
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 5:44 pm by Jager1

» Private 1941 Samuel MacClue / McClune 1/24th Regiment
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 3:11 pm by Dash

» Private Willis 2/24th Regiment his letter from South Africa
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 2:44 pm by Dash

» Sergeant W E Warren RA - Veteran
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 10:50 am by DavidS

» "With 6 good riflemen"
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySat Apr 06, 2024 5:10 pm by Hobbes

» Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyWed Apr 03, 2024 5:17 pm by SRB1965

» Colonialism: A Moral Legacy
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyMon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am by Julian Whybra

» John Robert Dunn
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 12:09 pm by 90th

» An early memorial to the Prince Imperial?
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 10:35 am by John Young

» The Poem "A Child Hero" referring to Rupert Weatherley
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyFri Mar 29, 2024 1:07 pm by Bongo

» Writing advice
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash

» Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu Dawn
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra

» 100,000 posts!
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra

» Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young

» Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company.
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» British rations and morale
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra

» Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private Hagan
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN

» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» William J Hoare 24th Regiment??
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash

» Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young

» Philip Price
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» August Hammar Letter Dated 6th Jan 1879
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyThu Feb 22, 2024 8:34 pm by Stefaan

» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:57 am by Julian Whybra

» Letter of officer during Zulu wars.
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:47 am by Julian Whybra

» About the second invasion
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyTue Feb 20, 2024 9:14 pm by 90th

» Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySat Feb 17, 2024 7:35 pm by John Young

» Watford band boys killed at iSandlwana
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyFri Feb 16, 2024 8:26 am by Julian Whybra

» Private J. McCrudden 1/13 Foot
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Feb 11, 2024 3:10 am by 90th

» Death of Michael Jayson (Zulu Dawn)
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 9:55 pm by ADMIN

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
April 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
1234567
891011121314
15161718192021
22232425262728
2930     
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Hobbes
Clery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_leftClery's advice to Chelmsford BarClery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_right 
Kenny
Clery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_leftClery's advice to Chelmsford BarClery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_right 
Jager1
Clery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_leftClery's advice to Chelmsford BarClery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_right 
Dash
Clery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_leftClery's advice to Chelmsford BarClery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_right 
SRB1965
Clery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_leftClery's advice to Chelmsford BarClery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_right 
John Young
Clery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_leftClery's advice to Chelmsford BarClery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_right 
DavidS
Clery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_leftClery's advice to Chelmsford BarClery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Clery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_leftClery's advice to Chelmsford BarClery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_right 
Petty Officer Tom
Clery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_leftClery's advice to Chelmsford BarClery's advice to Chelmsford Bar_right 
New topics
» Sickness among Crealock's men
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyYesterday at 8:51 pm by Hobbes

» Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse Artillery
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 9:36 pm by Hobbes

» John Robert Dunn
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 11:47 am by SueSNB

» The Poem "A Child Hero" referring to Rupert Weatherley
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyFri Mar 29, 2024 1:07 pm by Bongo

» An early memorial to the Prince Imperial?
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyFri Mar 29, 2024 11:49 am by lydenburg

» Colonialism: A Moral Legacy
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyThu Mar 28, 2024 5:25 pm by Julian Whybra

» Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyThu Mar 28, 2024 11:37 am by lydenburg

» Writing advice
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 8:57 pm by Hobbes

» 100,000 posts!
Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Mar 17, 2024 11:14 am by ADMIN

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Clery's advice to Chelmsford

Go down 
5 posters
AuthorMessage
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-02

Clery's advice to Chelmsford Empty
PostSubject: Clery's advice to Chelmsford   Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 12:38 pm

I have just noticed that there is a short aside by Clery in his letter of 28th Feb. to Harman (see page 85 of Clarke's Zululand at War). He is describing the disbelief that prevailed to the message from Gossett that the camp had been taken. He says:

"Indeed, I myself had this feeling (disbelief) notwithstanding that I had ventured to suggest to the General the evening before that if we should have to move out to the irregulars next morning that he should move with his whole camp."

So the irregulars he is talking about is Dartnell and he is advising the general ( before Dartnell's message arrives during the early hours of 22nd) that Chelmsford should take the whole camp out in support. I have not read that anywhere else and it seems to indicate that Clery was offering guidance direct to Chelmsford. Am I just missing something, is it Clery bigging himself up, or is there a whole passage of earlier advice to Chelmsford that led him to take half the force out early on 22nd?

Steve
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

xhosa2000


Posts : 1183
Join date : 2015-11-24

Clery's advice to Chelmsford Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clery's advice to Chelmsford   Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 12:46 pm

This looks like wisdom after the event!!!. Clery. Hmmm.

Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-02

Clery's advice to Chelmsford Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clery's advice to Chelmsford   Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 12:55 pm

Clery says himself that it might appear as wisdom after the event. It has always been a little difficult to understand why Chelmsford took such a large force out to Dartnell's assistance. Perhaps the seeds had been sown by Clery.

Steve
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

xhosa2000


Posts : 1183
Join date : 2015-11-24

Clery's advice to Chelmsford Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clery's advice to Chelmsford   Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 1:03 pm

Good point Steve, it will be interesting to see what others think.. Salute
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8572
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 77
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Clery's advice to Chelmsford Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clery's advice to Chelmsford   Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 4:13 pm

Hi Steve
The principle of taking out a large force leaving a 'holding force' behind was pretty standard in the Frontier war. Even Wood did it at Khambula.

Just think if Chelmsford had not moved out on the 22nd, it was his intention to recconoiter the plateau himself on the morning of the 22nd. Could have been interesting to see his reaction bumping into 20000 Zulu warriors.

Cheers
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-02

Clery's advice to Chelmsford Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clery's advice to Chelmsford   Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 5:01 pm

Actually, the quote in the current ammunition thread from Impi contains a reference by Crealock to Clery asking Chelmsford the previous evening about taking out the 24th to support Dartnell. That must be the same converstion that Clery mentions in his letter. Clery describes it as advice to Chelmsford to take the whole camp with him, Crealock describes it as a question about taking the 24th to which the answer was no. If nothing else it is evidence that Clary was having conversations with Chelmsford about the 24th that should have been coming from Glyn. Glyn looms more and more in my mind as a vital missing element in all this - he surely could have been more persuasive than Clery regardless of how difficult Chelmsford could be.

On your musing about what if. If Chelmsford had reconnoitred the plateau that morning I guess we would never have known his reaction to meeting the Zulus. Ponder though what might have happened if he had taken 2/24th with him up there and left the 1/24th back in camp?


Steve
Back to top Go down
impi

impi


Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 44

Clery's advice to Chelmsford Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clery's advice to Chelmsford   Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 5:24 pm

Posted in error!
Thanks Steve!


Last edited by impi on Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-02

Clery's advice to Chelmsford Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clery's advice to Chelmsford   Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 5:37 pm

Impi

Are you responding to my post on the reserve ammunition thread or this one?

Steve
Back to top Go down
xhosa2000

xhosa2000


Posts : 1183
Join date : 2015-11-24

Clery's advice to Chelmsford Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clery's advice to Chelmsford   Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 8:36 pm

A big puzzle for me is the fact that Chelmsford was so
obviously lacking in good staff officers. to filter out a
lot of the burden's he heaped on himself. what was going
on there? how, did Crealock assume so much
' power '.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10882
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Clery's advice to Chelmsford Empty
PostSubject: Clery's Advice to C'ford    Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 9:44 pm

In the letter from Clery to Col Harman from RD , dated 17th Feb , which I've just quoted in the reserve ammo thread re the message arriving from Dartnell , Clery does not say or state that he had any input on the forces to leave the camp , Clery as I wrote said '' The General did not hesitate much he said , '' Order the 2 Batt 24th Regt etc etc as I've already posted , nothing from Clery saying he had an input of any description .
90th
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-02

Clery's advice to Chelmsford Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clery's advice to Chelmsford   Clery's advice to Chelmsford EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 10:03 pm

Gary

That's right, but in his letter of 28th to Harman he talks about giving Chelmsford advice the previous evening (before the second message from Dartnell arrives) and Crealock seems to also mention it in his evidence.

Steve
Back to top Go down
 
Clery's advice to Chelmsford
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» help and advice
» Advise re 1.32 figures please
» Chelmsford

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: ZULU WAR BATTLES-
Jump to: