Zulu War Brain teaser #2

Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

John Young is banned from this one; he's too good. JB, send me a PM if when you figure it out.

Find the Zulu War participant in this photo from 1868:

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Clue 1: Male

Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

JY has it already. There should be enough in the photo to ID him.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Crealock?

Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

Frederic, which Crealock? And which guy is it in the photo?

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Isandula,
Henry Hope lying on the ground

Posts : 1183 Join date : 2015-11-24

Maybe add's a little more definition.

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Isandula Collection.

Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

You are very correct, Frederic--well done!!! Henry Hope Crealock-- Note the floppy hat (without peacock feather) that he was described as wearing during the Zulu War, and what, I think, is a sketch pad in his lap as he was quite the artist.
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Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

Nice improvement, Xhosa2000--thanks!

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Isandula,

As usual, many thanks for sharing your photographies with us.
Frédéric

Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

My pleasure, Frederic, and well done on HHC.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Bonjour Isandula,

I suppose the gentleman on the far right (standing) is not Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller (LC's staff officer).
("1868 Captaincy confirmed from promotion date on 20/02/1867").

Best regards

Frédéric

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Yesterday, I had hesitated between two propositions: Buller and Crealock (you wrote "find the zulu war participant" without "s" at the end of "participant").
So I was surprised to discover that the name of one of the men on the photograph was Captain Buller ....
There are 3 photographies of ER Buller on the forum.

Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

Frederic, I knew the man in the HHC photograph in 1868 was not Redvers Buller. I cannot find the photo of E.R. Buller on the forum to see if it possibly matches up.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Isandula,
Be careful, not Redvers Buller but Ernest Henry Buller.
See the Topic "Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller"

Cheers

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Please, search"The one's the history book forgot" (last post 16 April 2014)

Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

Frederic, I checked out the pics of E.R.M.Buller and compared them with my wedding party photo with HHC. I think my Buller was taller, but I cannot be certain. Maybe John Young has an opinion.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

About the "stature" of E.H. Buller, I wonder if a well known another photography does not show him during the Zulu war with a helmet (with Gosset and LC. Maybe also Molyneux?). I am not sure: I am not at home and I can't check my books.
Cheers.
Frédéric

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Isandula,
As you know there is also a "Lieutenant-Colonel Buller" on your photography.
The brother of Ernest, Frederick Charles Manningham (born june 1837), gained the rank of Colonel in the Coldstream Guards.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

There is a photography of Frederick on internet taken in 1860 (National Portrait Gallery)

Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

Frederic, I checked out the National Portrait Gallery photo of Lt.-Col. Frederick Charles Manningham Buller, and it does not match up with my wedding party photo of Lt.-Col. Buller. Perhaps, then, this is indicative that the Captain Buller in my photo is not the brother, Ernest Buller? Good find on the National Portrait Gallery photo of FCM.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

The London Gazette, March, 29, 1870, p.1932
"War office, Pall Mall, 29 March 1870,
Lieutenant and Captain Frederick Charles Buller to be Captain and Lieutenant-Colonel by purchase, vice the Honourbale Williamn Edwerdes, who retires. Dated 30 March 1870".
(Frederick changed his name / it's the same man)

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Isandula,
it seems you are right.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

...but there was a Lieutenant-Colonel White (another Gentleman of your Photography) in the Coldstream Guards in 1863 ("The Times" / 27 June 1863) Very Happy

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

ymob wrote:: About the "stature" of E.H. Buller, I wonder if a well known another photography does not show him during the Zulu war with a helmet (with Gosset and LC. Maybe also Molyneux?). I am not sure: I am not at home and I can't check my books.
Cheers.
Frédéric

My memory was faulty (LC / Molyneux / Redvers Buller / Gosset / Crealock / Wood).
Sorry

Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

Yes, Frederic, too bad Ernest Buller was not in that photo. Your memory is better than mine--I could not remember Gosset.

Subject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2 Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:18 pm

So, is Lady Louisa Cochrane anything to do with William Dundonald Cochrane, Isandlwana survivor? :

Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

24th foot, I do not know--maybe another one of our members can be of assistance.

Subject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2 Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:48 am

24th Foot,

Louisa MacKinnon, 2nd daughter of William Alexander MacKinnon, Chief of the Clan MacKinnon, married Thomas Barnes Cochrane, of the 2nd (Queen's) Regiment in 1847. Cochrane was the son of 10th Earl of Dundonald, the famous Napoleonic Admiral.

So in answer to your question, I believe her to be the 2nd cousin, by marriage, to William Francis Dundonald Cochrane who was the great-nephew of Admiral Cochrane.

John Y.

Subject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2 Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:58 am

RB,

It is indeed E.H.M. Buller please see: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The same profile and hair line.

Regards,

JB

Posts : 272 Join date : 2010-08-13

JB, Confusion may lie in the way the names are listed on the mount beside the photograph. I know the guy far right standing looks like E.H.M. Buller a bit, but isn't he ID'd on the mount on the right as "Mr. H. Evans"?

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

Isandula,
It seems to me that the second man standing from right (near EHM Buller) looks like Frederick Charles Buller.
Happy to be corrected.

Frédéric

Subject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2 Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:22 pm

Thanks for your reply JY. Admiral Cochrane! Now there's a great man.

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