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 Zulu War Brain teaser #2

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Isandula

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PostSubject: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyMon Feb 13, 2017 11:32 pm

John Young is banned from this one; he's too good. JB, send me a PM if when you figure it out.

Find the Zulu War participant in this photo from 1868:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Clue 1: Male

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Isandula

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyMon Feb 13, 2017 11:40 pm

JY has it already. There should be enough in the photo to ID him.
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyMon Feb 13, 2017 11:51 pm

Crealock?
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyMon Feb 13, 2017 11:56 pm

Frederic, which Crealock? And which guy is it in the photo?
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyMon Feb 13, 2017 11:59 pm

Isandula,
Henry Hope lying on the ground
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xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 1:05 am

Maybe add's a little more definition.

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Isandula Collection.
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 1:09 am

You are very correct, Frederic--well done!!!  Henry Hope Crealock-- Note the floppy hat (without peacock feather) that he was described as wearing during the Zulu War, and what, I think, is a sketch pad in his lap as he was quite the artist.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 1:11 am

Nice improvement, Xhosa2000--thanks!
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 8:26 am

Isandula,
Salute
As usual, many thanks for sharing your photographies with us.
Frédéric
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 1:18 pm

My pleasure, Frederic, and well done on HHC.
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 1:35 pm

Bonjour Isandula,

I suppose the gentleman on the far right (standing) is not Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller (LC's staff officer).
("1868 Captaincy confirmed from promotion date on 20/02/1867").

Best regards

Frédéric

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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 1:50 pm

Yesterday, I had hesitated between two propositions: Buller and Crealock (you wrote "find the zulu war participant" without "s" at the end of "participant").
So I was surprised to discover that the name of one of the men on the photograph was Captain Buller ....
There are 3 photographies of ER Buller on the forum.
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 2:13 pm

Frederic, I knew the man in the HHC photograph in 1868 was not Redvers Buller. I cannot find the photo of E.R. Buller on the forum to see if it possibly matches up.
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 2:17 pm

Isandula,
Be careful, not Redvers Buller but Ernest Henry Buller.
See the Topic "Captain Ernest Henry Manningham Buller"

Cheers
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 2:20 pm

Please, search"The one's the history book forgot" (last post 16 April 2014)
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 2:34 pm

Frederic, I checked out the pics of E.R.M.Buller and compared them with my wedding party photo with HHC. I think my Buller was taller, but I cannot be certain. Maybe John Young has an opinion.
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 2:43 pm

About the "stature" of E.H. Buller, I wonder if a well known another photography does not show him during the Zulu war with a helmet (with Gosset and LC. Maybe also Molyneux?). I am not sure: I am not at home and I can't check my books.
Cheers.
Frédéric
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 3:04 pm

Isandula,
As you know there is also a "Lieutenant-Colonel Buller" on your photography.
The brother of Ernest, Frederick Charles Manningham (born june 1837), gained the rank of Colonel in the Coldstream Guards.
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 3:09 pm

There is a photography of Frederick on internet taken in 1860 (National Portrait Gallery)
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 3:34 pm

Frederic, I checked out the National Portrait Gallery photo of Lt.-Col. Frederick Charles Manningham Buller, and it does not match up with my wedding party photo of Lt.-Col. Buller. Perhaps, then, this is indicative that the Captain Buller in my photo is not the brother, Ernest Buller? Good find on the National Portrait Gallery photo of FCM.
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 3:37 pm

The London Gazette, March, 29, 1870, p.1932
"War office, Pall Mall, 29 March 1870,
Lieutenant and Captain Frederick Charles Buller to be Captain and Lieutenant-Colonel by purchase, vice the Honourbale Williamn Edwerdes, who retires. Dated 30 March 1870".
(Frederick changed his name / it's the same man)
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 3:38 pm

Isandula,
it seems you are right.
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 3:48 pm

...but there was a Lieutenant-Colonel White (another Gentleman of your Photography) in the Coldstream Guards in 1863 ("The Times" / 27 June 1863) Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyWed Feb 15, 2017 1:21 am

ymob wrote:
About the "stature" of E.H. Buller, I wonder if a well known another photography does not show him during the Zulu war with a helmet (with Gosset and LC. Maybe also Molyneux?). I am not sure: I am not at home and I can't check my books.
Cheers.
Frédéric

My memory was faulty (LC / Molyneux / Redvers Buller / Gosset / Crealock / Wood).
Sorry
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyWed Feb 15, 2017 2:21 am

Yes, Frederic, too bad Ernest Buller was not in that photo. Your memory is better than mine--I could not remember Gosset.
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24th foot

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyThu Feb 16, 2017 12:18 am

So, is Lady Louisa Cochrane anything to do with William Dundonald Cochrane, Isandlwana survivor? :
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyThu Feb 16, 2017 12:21 am

24th foot, I do not know--maybe another one of our members can be of assistance.
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyThu Feb 16, 2017 11:48 am

24th Foot,

Louisa MacKinnon, 2nd daughter of William Alexander MacKinnon, Chief of the Clan MacKinnon, married Thomas Barnes Cochrane, of the 2nd (Queen's) Regiment in 1847. Cochrane was the son of 10th Earl of Dundonald, the famous Napoleonic Admiral.

So in answer to your question, I believe her to be the 2nd cousin, by marriage, to William Francis Dundonald Cochrane who was the great-nephew of Admiral Cochrane.

John Y.
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyThu Feb 16, 2017 12:58 pm

RB,

It is indeed E.H.M. Buller please see: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The same profile and hair line.

Regards,

JB
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Isandula

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyThu Feb 16, 2017 2:34 pm

JB, Confusion may lie in the way the names are listed on the mount beside the photograph. I know the guy far right standing looks like E.H.M. Buller a bit, but isn't he ID'd on the mount on the right as "Mr. H. Evans"?
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ymob

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyThu Feb 16, 2017 3:02 pm

Isandula,
It seems to me that the second man standing from right (near EHM Buller) looks like Frederick Charles Buller.
Happy to be corrected.

Frédéric
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24th foot

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu War Brain teaser #2   Zulu War Brain teaser #2 EmptyFri Feb 17, 2017 12:22 am

Thanks for your reply JY. Admiral Cochrane! Now there's a great man.
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