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Zulu: Lieutenant John Chard:What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead:Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you
 
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1879graves

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PostSubject: An Old Zulu Warrior   An Old Zulu Warrior EmptySun Jun 11, 2017 4:41 pm

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Western Gazette 11 March 1927
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PostSubject: Re: An Old Zulu Warrior   An Old Zulu Warrior EmptyMon Jun 12, 2017 11:04 pm

interesting he say's we "stab them as they woke up". Could be refering to the men coming out of the tents as they entered the camp.
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xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: An Old Zulu Warrior   An Old Zulu Warrior EmptyMon Jun 12, 2017 11:23 pm

I thought that odd too.. who would be kipping?. they had been stood to.
stood down, and fell in again.. reckon the old boy was embellishing a
little. " we attacked the English in the early morning " err no!.
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: An old zulu warrior    An Old Zulu Warrior EmptyTue Jun 13, 2017 4:27 am

Wonder if he was confused with Intombie Drift ? . Seriously , I've read reports where the Zulu have claimed to have killed men coming out of the tents at Isandlwana , there were many Grooms and other I suppose non line infantry men in the camp on that day , but with the battle commencing I cant see why , or how , anyone would decide to go to a tent , you'd think everyone would want to be watching ' those Heathens ' copping a pasting ! .
90th Shocked
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SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: An Old Zulu Warrior   An Old Zulu Warrior EmptyTue Jun 13, 2017 7:37 am

Hi,

It does make you wonder if the old boy was talking of Intombi but the writer assumed it was Isandlwana (it being more famous).

He was '80' odd (maybe in 1927) making him 30 ish at the time of the Zulu War.

He claims to have lead a regiment (company?), so if you think about it the iNdluyengwe were in their late 20's but did not do much fighting at Isandlwana so I find it hard to credit him with killing 6, especially in the tents.

I feel its more likely that he was talking about Intombi and the correspondent (Dewdney - who I think was South African and wrote for the Rand Daily Mail) either deliberately or accidently attributed it to being Isandlwana.

Just my musings......
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: An Old Zulu Warrior   An Old Zulu Warrior EmptyTue Jun 13, 2017 7:07 pm

The only reference I can come across is in JS Vol 4 Msiyana Chief of the Xulu tribe marked as deceased. The file evidence was taken 18.9.1900.
The fact that he seems to link up iSandlwana with RD and he says he lead that attack is rather strange.
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SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: An Old Zulu Warrior   An Old Zulu Warrior EmptyThu Jun 22, 2017 6:52 am

Just out of interest (with help from Petty Officer Tom), I have found reference to a 'Manyanyoba' who commanded with Mblini at iNtombi or just prior to the battle

I wonder if this could be the 'old Zulu' whose name was miss spelt or written phonetically by the writer

Just an idea......
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Daniel25



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PostSubject: Re: An Old Zulu Warrior   An Old Zulu Warrior EmptySat May 23, 2020 7:31 am

I'm not personally sure how much stock to put into this account.

The fact that Msinyana thought all the whites in the world were dead after the battle leads me to believe he is referencing to Isandlwana due to the scale of that battle vs Intombi.

"We stabbed them as they woke up" could just be a liberal reference to the fact that the battle started before lunch? Perhaps Zulu's slept in?

Killing 6 himself? I find it hard to believe he would have had the opportunity? Surely as the firing line fell back into the camp and the 1/24th were broken up by the flooding Zulu warriors there would not have been that many available kills to any one warrior? Any group of red coats that lasted longer than the initial 5 minutes after the collapse of the firing line would presumably have made it into larger pockets of resistance fighting back to back? They would then have presumably shot, bayoneted and kicked at the swarming Zulus before being overwhelmed in a definitive second by hundreds of Zulu after been warn down by hundreds of thrown spear and rush's? In the final moments of the pockets of resistance I doubt again that there would be very much time for more than a kill or two to any one warrior? I could perceive 2 or 3 kills to a lucky warrior throughout the course of the battle but 6?

Not sure what Msinyana could have recalled of the battle of Rorkes Drift as the reporter states as he left for home after the battle of Isandlwana thinking he had cleansed the earth of all whites!  Who knows? Maybe the reporter did a poor job of reporting this warriors account?
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: An Old Zulu Warrior   An Old Zulu Warrior EmptySat May 23, 2020 11:30 am

As has been said, the only regiment that fought at both battles was the inDluyengwe. The linking of the two battles in the warrior's mind precludes any misreferencing to Intombi. The inDluyengwe's induna was not called Msinyana. In fact no iButho's induna was called Msinyana or anything like it. The inconsistencies in the account are legion.
I think this is simply an old hard-up Zulu faced with the prospect of being offered a few shillings for a good story by a gullible white reporter. And who can blame him!
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SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: An Old Zulu Warrior   An Old Zulu Warrior EmptySat May 23, 2020 11:48 am

Perhaps in the time honoured way of military tale tellers - he borrowed bits from other accounts and put them into his own story........
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