WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Anson A. Mayer/Maher
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyToday at 12:38 am by Eddie

» Late Father's Militaria Collection
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 2:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 11:28 am by Eddie

» Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native Contingent
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySat Apr 20, 2024 9:26 am by SRB1965

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyFri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young

» No. 985. PTE. EDWARD READ. 2-24 Regt. (South Wales Borders).
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySun Apr 14, 2024 8:12 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private Willis 2/24th Regiment his letter from South Africa
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySat Apr 13, 2024 2:49 pm by 1879graves

» Sickness among Crealock's men
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyFri Apr 12, 2024 4:52 pm by Hobbes

» Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse Artillery
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyTue Apr 09, 2024 5:20 pm by Kenny

» Brevet Major W.R.B. Chamberlin
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 5:44 pm by Jager1

» Private 1941 Samuel MacClue / McClune 1/24th Regiment
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 3:11 pm by Dash

» Sergeant W E Warren RA - Veteran
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 10:50 am by DavidS

» "With 6 good riflemen"
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySat Apr 06, 2024 5:10 pm by Hobbes

» Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyWed Apr 03, 2024 5:17 pm by SRB1965

» Colonialism: A Moral Legacy
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyMon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am by Julian Whybra

» John Robert Dunn
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 12:09 pm by 90th

» An early memorial to the Prince Imperial?
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 10:35 am by John Young

» The Poem "A Child Hero" referring to Rupert Weatherley
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyFri Mar 29, 2024 1:07 pm by Bongo

» Writing advice
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash

» Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu Dawn
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra

» 100,000 posts!
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra

» Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young

» Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company.
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» British rations and morale
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra

» Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private Hagan
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN

» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» William J Hoare 24th Regiment??
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash

» Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young

» Philip Price
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» August Hammar Letter Dated 6th Jan 1879
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyThu Feb 22, 2024 8:34 pm by Stefaan

» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:57 am by Julian Whybra

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
April 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
1234567
891011121314
15161718192021
22232425262728
2930     
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Hobbes
Isandlwana coat colours Bar_leftIsandlwana coat colours BarIsandlwana coat colours Bar_right 
John Young
Isandlwana coat colours Bar_leftIsandlwana coat colours BarIsandlwana coat colours Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Isandlwana coat colours Bar_leftIsandlwana coat colours BarIsandlwana coat colours Bar_right 
SRB1965
Isandlwana coat colours Bar_leftIsandlwana coat colours BarIsandlwana coat colours Bar_right 
Kenny
Isandlwana coat colours Bar_leftIsandlwana coat colours BarIsandlwana coat colours Bar_right 
A Crockart
Isandlwana coat colours Bar_leftIsandlwana coat colours BarIsandlwana coat colours Bar_right 
Petty Officer Tom
Isandlwana coat colours Bar_leftIsandlwana coat colours BarIsandlwana coat colours Bar_right 
Jager1
Isandlwana coat colours Bar_leftIsandlwana coat colours BarIsandlwana coat colours Bar_right 
Dash
Isandlwana coat colours Bar_leftIsandlwana coat colours BarIsandlwana coat colours Bar_right 
Eddie
Isandlwana coat colours Bar_leftIsandlwana coat colours BarIsandlwana coat colours Bar_right 
New topics
» Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native Contingent
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySat Apr 20, 2024 12:38 am by WeekendWarrior

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyFri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young

» Late Father's Militaria Collection
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyThu Apr 18, 2024 3:04 pm by A Crockart

» Anson A. Mayer/Maher
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyTue Apr 16, 2024 5:28 pm by cmeghen

» A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySun Apr 14, 2024 8:01 pm by Hobbes

» Sickness among Crealock's men
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyThu Apr 11, 2024 8:51 pm by Hobbes

» Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse Artillery
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 9:36 pm by Hobbes

» John Robert Dunn
Isandlwana coat colours EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 11:47 am by SueSNB

» The Poem "A Child Hero" referring to Rupert Weatherley
Isandlwana coat colours EmptyFri Mar 29, 2024 1:07 pm by Bongo

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Isandlwana coat colours

Go down 
4 posters
AuthorMessage
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1203
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Isandlwana coat colours   Isandlwana coat colours EmptySun Jul 02, 2017 8:34 pm

Hi,

Just for a laugh, I have looked at the list of (Imperial) survivors from Isandlwana and put them into ‘tunic’ colours based on the uniforms worn at the time (true, the tunic could have been discarded leaving shirtsleeves but it’s just something I am playing with.)

I’m not sure the total survivor was 38 but here we go....

I believe the ‘lucky five’ all wore the dark blue patrol jacket.

Bombardier Gough (rockets) and the 9 men of N5 RA would also have worn dark blue.

Trainer, Grant, Johnson (rockets) plus Bickley, Wilson (bandsmen) & Williams (groom) would have been in red, as would the 17 men of the IMI

So we have 15 men in blue and 23 in redcoats escaping.

If you then add the Volunteers, NNC officers and civvies, the number of dark (or non red tunics who survived) outnumber the redcoats but also most of these already had access to horses.

I think that given the position of the rocket battery, Trainer, Grant and Johnson were lucky they survived regardless of coat colour...

Have I missed anyone?

Cheers

Simon
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3237
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours   Isandlwana coat colours EmptySun Jul 02, 2017 9:51 pm

Simon,

Where are you getting the figure of seventeen members of No. 1 Squadron, Mounted Infantry surviving from?

In my somewhat dated work They Fell Like Stones... I only record nine survivors from the squadron.

In his work Hill of the Sphinx, David Jackson added another name, that of Private John Gascoigne, of 2nd/3rd, to the figure I had arrived, making ten survivors from No. 1 Squadron, Mounted Infantry.

I don't know what number Julian currently has for the survivors of the squadron, but I think your figure of seventeen is somewhat high.

Just my thoughts.

John Y.
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1203
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours   Isandlwana coat colours EmptyMon Jul 03, 2017 6:01 am

Hi john,

I will be honest I cheated and used  a quick Google search and came up with:-

http://www.rorkesdriftvc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2770&sid=6d6279c5708d581e12303808629c3ae1

I thought 17 seemed a little high but I picked up the ball and ran with it.

I have your book but with the majority of my ZW library, its packed away in the loft.

It gave me something to do whilst Mrs SRB was stuck glued to Poldark..... Surprised

Cheers

Simon
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10882
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Isandlwana Coat Colours    Isandlwana coat colours EmptyMon Jul 03, 2017 1:15 pm

Hi Simon
The last time I checked I think Julian Whybra has 55 as the total number of undisputed Isandlwana Survivors .
90th You need to study mo
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3237
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours   Isandlwana coat colours EmptyMon Jul 03, 2017 1:26 pm

90th,

The figure of fifty-five European survivors was put to bed by David Jackson in his original research.

Despite that the number of fifty-five European survivors still appears in works on the subject which post-date his original publication in 1965.

John Y.
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10882
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Isandlwana Coat Colours    Isandlwana coat colours EmptyMon Jul 03, 2017 1:40 pm

Hi JY
So what are you saying... 55 is incorrect ? , if so , what is the attributed number of survivors ? .
90th Salute
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3237
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours   Isandlwana coat colours EmptyMon Jul 03, 2017 2:41 pm

Gary,

Yes, despite the fact that more recent authors maintain the figure of fifty-five European survivors.  F. W. David Jackson put pay to that figure as far back as 1965 in his original research Isandhlwana: the Sources Re-examined.

Personally, I would say the figure is at least seventy-eight European survivors, but I would defer to Julian as his research on this matter is far more current than my own.

You are obviously reading the wrong publications on the subject, things have moved on from Coupland...

John Y.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3957
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours   Isandlwana coat colours EmptyMon Jul 03, 2017 4:10 pm

Hi SRB1965
The next edition of England's Sons will show 92 European survivors and 2 possible survivors, all with appropriate provenance.
11 of these survivors come from the IMI (with another 11 kia).
To be accurate in your assessment, you would need to read all the surviving accounts to discover what they were wearing.  Some of the IMI for instance recorded that they escaped in their shirtsleeves.
I am busy working on Studies in the Zulu War volume IV and I think you will find a few interesting surprises in it when it comes out hopefully in November.

John
Thank you.  Nice to hear from you by the way albeit second-hand!
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3237
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours   Isandlwana coat colours EmptyMon Jul 03, 2017 4:29 pm

Julian,

Yes I'm still here, I can get back in the fray for a short while, whilst the Indian Mutiny work goes back to the publishers.

John Y.
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 1203
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 59
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours   Isandlwana coat colours EmptyMon Jul 03, 2017 7:00 pm

Julian Whybra wrote:

To be accurate in your assessment, you would need to read all the surviving accounts to discover what they were wearing.  Some of the IMI for instance recorded that they escaped in their shirtsleeves.

Hi Julian, that's going to part two of my project.....probably during the 'next exciting episode' of Poldark......

I will have get my ZW books down from the library/loft......
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10882
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Isandlwana Survivors    Isandlwana coat colours EmptyTue Jul 04, 2017 6:19 am

JY
Hahahahahahaha , Coupland , I thought it was England's Sons that listed the figure of 55 ? , obviously not Shocked Shocked
Anyway , the more the merrier ! . Have you heard from our mate ' The Major ' , he's a bloody funny man isn't he ? . He was toying with the idea of going to the Sudan , Abu Klea from memory , is it safe to go there ? . Would be interesting to set foot on that site .
90th Salute
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3957
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours   Isandlwana coat colours EmptyTue Jul 04, 2017 9:27 am

90th
No, I don't believe I've ever been as low as 55 except perhaps after the first time I read TWOTS back in 1966. I think within a few weeks of reading him I'd done my own calculation which made it well over that.
A forum member said to me recently that pretty soon there'll be more survivors from Isandhlwana than those who were kia. Joking of course, it'll never come to that...but it wouldn't surprise me if there are still a few more to be found. Several waggon drivers for a start who left early-ish, many of course without a horse and were overtaken, but there must still have been some who managed it. And perhaps an IMI or two slipped beneath the radar.
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10882
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Isandlwana Coat Colours    Isandlwana coat colours EmptyTue Jul 04, 2017 10:41 am

Thanks Julian for posting much appreciated . What's the number currently of definite Isandlwana survivors according to your research ?, as you say there are probably many more just waiting to be found and scrutinized .
90th Salute
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3957
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Re: Isandlwana coat colours   Isandlwana coat colours EmptyTue Jul 04, 2017 11:50 am

90th
See my post of yesterday of 3.10.
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10882
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 67
Location : Melbourne, Australia

Isandlwana coat colours Empty
PostSubject: Isandlwana Coat Colours    Isandlwana coat colours EmptyTue Jul 04, 2017 12:08 pm

Thanks Julian .
90th Salute
Back to top Go down
 
Isandlwana coat colours
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Chelmsford the scape goat will not like this
» Button taken from Durnfords coat ?
» Had the 2nd/24th colours disappeared before the last stands were made

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: BRITISH / COLONIAL UNIFORMS. WEAPONS.-
Jump to: