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SRB1965

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PostSubject: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyWed Oct 04, 2017 9:12 am

Hi

Not knowing how thorough the search of Isandlwana was in May 1879 etc (nor the area today), does anyone know if there are any outlying cairns - for example for the rocket detachment or are there any others to indicate casualties (if any) during Durnfords retreat or his occupation of the dongas or have these been lost to time 7 erosion?

Are there burial cairns in the kraal, were the NNMC are said to have been victim of a friendly fire incident, when Lt Roberts (I think) was killed.

Cheers

Sime
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyWed Oct 04, 2017 11:27 am

Simon
With the Rocket Battery, there was a report some time after all the burials that further bodies were visible around two miles from the camp area. These were assumed to be the RB but the location was never recorded and there are no cairns. If you consider that over 100 men were killed with the rocket battery (See Nourse) then its a bit of a mystery why no cairns were constructed.
The position of the Roberts kraal is also unknown, suspected but not known. There were two possibly three cairns on the plateau that disapeared early 70s, around the time the top track stated to get widened. They were recorded by George Chadwick, and that record is a whole new conversation.
The nearest cairns to the Durnford Donga are around 100 to 150 metres or so closer to the camp.
Early perceptions of the camp and the cairns were pretty abysmal. When Mainwaring visited a number of years afterwards and was walking the battle field with a local councilor responsible for the area, the councilor was astounded that there were cairns leading along Fugitives trail and didn't believe it until shown by Mainwaring.
Incidently I was shown those top two cairns by George Chadwick around 1969. Adrian Greaves also saw them around the same time.
The most 'outlying' cairns are probably those on the side of the 'swamp' on top of Mpethe. Pretty sure Gary has photos of them.
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SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyWed Oct 04, 2017 12:09 pm

Thanks, Frank.
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aussie inkosi

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyThu Oct 05, 2017 7:50 am

Hi Frank
Your above statement is very interesting mate when they made that dirt road on the notch did it drastically change the typology of the terrain in the area have you seen of any early photos taken pre 70s of that area mate which would have changed little in apperance before the construction of all these dirt roads leading into the main battle field.

It would be great if you can post any old photos of the area seeing your knowledge of the battlefield
is unparalleled

Thanks mate : Salute: Salute Salute
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyThu Oct 05, 2017 12:45 pm

Hi Aussie
Yes it did, along with building the Lodge.
Ive sent a couple of photos to Pete for posting. In the very early shot of iSandlwana just behind what is now the front of the lodge you will see no track at all. In the aerial photo the traditional track is very visible to the east of what is now the lodge. There are no tracks to the West of the lodge.
The hole topography of the ridge has changed since 1879, by a hell of a lot.

Cheers
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aussie inkosi

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyFri Oct 06, 2017 1:47 am

Hi Frank
thanks for the above post  can not wait to see these photos what year were they taken mate ?

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyMon Oct 09, 2017 6:54 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyMon Mar 11, 2019 9:10 pm

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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyTue Mar 12, 2019 5:38 am

Ansteys body found at the top of the camp! Pretty much destroys the theory he made a last stand on the manzimyama
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90th

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PostSubject: Outlying Burial Cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyTue Mar 12, 2019 5:42 am

Hi Frank
Quite possibly ! .
90th Salute
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyTue Mar 12, 2019 6:42 am

Takes the drama out of it though Gary. Still the gallantry was still there just different place. Salute Salute
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SRB1965

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyTue Mar 12, 2019 7:46 am

Hi

I dunno if 'Essays V' has managed to wing its way to The Cape but there is a section in those, that refer to Ansty's body

Cheers

Simon
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyTue Mar 12, 2019 9:31 am

Tha man with the loin cloth and forked stick is still running Sime Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyThu Dec 29, 2022 6:05 pm

Can anyone please  shed any light on the possible cairn which covers the body of Lt Francis Pender Porteous. I did unsuccessfully try to find this out prior to going to the 140th commemorations of the battle in 2019. Any suggestions would be welcome. Best wishes, Richard Porteous. (Cousin, twice removed to F P Porteous)
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peter@zuluwars




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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 12:20 pm



Dear Richard,


My understanding is that the bodies of those killed were later covered by stones.
The book titled "The South Africa Campaign of 1879" by Mackinnon and Shadbolt,
has a page dedicated to his history, and part reads: "He was a great favourite (sic)
of mine and much beloved by all in the regiment. His loss deeply mourned by all who knew him."
(Written by his commanding officer.)

The Graphic, a weekly Magazine published in Durban in 1963, showed a photograph by S. Bourquin,
of "Francis Porteous Pender -- killed in the battle of Isandusana (sic)

Kind regards,

Peter Quantrill
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyFri Dec 30, 2022 1:47 pm

Peter Q.,

There was I labouring under the misapprehension that The Graphic was a contemporary illustrated newspaper published as a weekly edition in London, between 1869 and 1932.

SB’s edition is only a photocopy of the pertinent illustrations and text relating to the Zulu War taken from the original 1879 editions.  In the same way that Ron and yourself reproduced the appropriate material from the Illustrated London News.

Regards,

JY
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richardporteous




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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyFri Jan 06, 2023 7:13 pm

Thanks Peter for your reply and apologies for the tardy response, a couple of things called Christmas and New Year got in the way, together with a hospital procedure. I've got a well thumbed copy of  McKinnon & Shadbolt and have copies of the Graphic's illustrations. I have an original photo of Porteous in civvies handed down through the family but have always felt that very little is known about his involvement on the day of the battle. Several different accounts can be found as to which company he was with, which of course would have differing repercussions as to where on the battle field he was killed and subsequently buried. Thank you for your reply and best wishes for 2023.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyFri Jan 06, 2023 9:46 pm

Richard
The only accounts that matter are the contemporary ones.
I don't think that anyone now doubts that Porteous was with A coy in support of and to the left of N/5 and was either in command of it or second-in-command.
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richardporteous




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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyFri Jan 06, 2023 10:40 pm

Thanks Julian, I think you're probably right. What nags at me though is that several people, who would class themselves as Zulu War experts, can come up with such an array of different answers.
Happy New Year to you.
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Julian Whybra




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Location : Billericay, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptySat Jan 07, 2023 9:41 am

The account of Pte. Williams 1/2th mentions the position of no. 1 (A) coy specifically.
The account of Pte. Wilson 1/24th corroborates it.
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richardporteous




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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptySat Jan 07, 2023 1:06 pm

The account by Pte E Wilson stating that 'Soon after which ‘E’ Company, 1/24th, Lieutenant Cavaye in charge moved out to the left, the remainder were marched back to our own private parade grounds, and were dismissed with orders not to take off our accoutrements’ also puts paid to those authors who have Porteous in charge of E Company.
Thanks again Julian for your help.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptySat Jan 07, 2023 3:45 pm

Exactly!
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Outlying burial cairns   Outlying burial cairns EmptyMon Jan 09, 2023 10:50 am

Richard,

As you mentioned a well-thumbed copy of MacKinnon & Shadbolt, this is from my 1880 edition of the same.

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Lt. F. P. Porteous, ‘A’ Company, 1st/24th Regiment.
(John Young Collection)

JY
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