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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2388
Join date : 2011-09-12

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PostSubject: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySun Jan 14, 2018 5:11 pm

Yesterday's Daily Telegraph p. 28 had an interesting piece about recruiting in the modern army and how the govt wishes the army AND its history in the British Empire to be perceived. Among other salient points it decries the new layout of the NAM and notes that the present director has recently resigned to be replaced with a former army brigadier. The author hopes that things will change in the NAM.
Hmm interesting!
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Kenny



Posts : 418
Join date : 2013-05-07
Location : Brecon

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySun Jan 14, 2018 5:34 pm

Julian

I find that most recently retired officers, know very little about our military history, MRS is an exception. I can remember visiting the NAM at the time of 150th of the Crimea - it was clear that whoever curated that exhibition had never visited the battlefield. Perhaps, we shall see the new director actually walking the ground at Isandlwana, Ulundi, Rorke's Drift and the other sites so closely connected with AZW.
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySun Jan 14, 2018 6:33 pm

I have to say that I did not like the themed approach at the new NAM when I visited, but I also think it is now on trend to decry what is referred to as "political correctness". I am not even sure what that means in the context of the new NAM, but Inevitably the Telegraph will focus on it as its theme.

I am also not sure that it is possible to do justice in any single museum to the history of the entire British army in all its facets and over 400 years. In the old museum I always felt that attempting to reflect the Crimean war in two glass cabinets was totally inadequate. But that was because I had a particular interest. Incidentally, there is not much less on that subject in the new museum (including the cat) but it is arranged differently, that's all.  Like all great museums and galleries only a small percentage of the artefacts are ever on show and what is selected is the personal choice of someone. Perhaps a retired brigadier will do it differently, perhaps he won't. I tend to agree that a reputation for war fighting does not necessarily tell us anything about an ability to educate.

On the whole, I think regimental museums work better. The scope is less wide, there is often a feeling of family and local connection. Museums need to tell stories and the NAM's remit is really just too vast however you organise it. For my own preference there should be much less from 1914 to date because the IWM should be the focus for that. But that is just me.

Steve Reinstadtler
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2388
Join date : 2011-09-12

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySun Jan 14, 2018 10:29 pm

Yes, I tend to agree that the regtl museums do it better. Perhaps the NAM would be better arranged as was - chronologically - maintaining smaller displays because of the space issue but with rotating special exhibitions focusing on a particular war/campaign or geographical area.
At the moment it is very unsatisfactory.
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nitro450

nitro450

Posts : 151
Join date : 2015-01-21
Age : 75
Location : Sydney, Australia

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyMon Jan 15, 2018 1:31 am

The National War Museum here is Australia, located in Canberra, ACT is a great museum and tribute to all who have served. Every aspect of war in which Australian troops participated is represented as far as I recall. The relatively new "Hall of Valour" showing some of the VC winners is excellent.

A new group of statues of mounted horsemen of the Boer War has recently been unveiled on one of the wide avenues of the city. I have also visited anumber of Reg'tl Museums in the UK, (twice to Brecon) on my travels and really enjoy them. Black Watch in Perth and the little one for the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) in Hamilton are a couple of favourites.Salute Salute Salute
Nitro450
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyTue Jan 23, 2018 8:47 pm

NAM posted this on their Twitter account today. What?, or am I missing something?

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Steve Reinstadtler
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John Young

John Young

Posts : 2175
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 64
Location : Lower Sheering, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyTue Jan 23, 2018 10:52 pm

“Someone has blundered...”

The figure on the right of the sketch appears to be the drummer boy from her work ’Listed for the Connaughts.

I can’t lay my hands on my copy of the NAM book of her work at present.

JY
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyWed Jan 24, 2018 1:10 am

That looks more like it John. It is not illustrated in the Butler book but her 1877 sketchbook is listed and sounds right - studies for the "Connaughts" and of Lancers and Hussars at Aldershot. I have raised it with the NAM.

Steve Reinstadtler
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyWed Jan 24, 2018 3:18 pm

NAM agrees and have removed the offending Tweet. I suggested they post the sketch of Private Jenkins instead.

Steve
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xhosa2000

xhosa2000

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Join date : 2015-11-24

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySat Jan 27, 2018 12:45 pm

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From.. Lady Butler Battle Artist 1846 - 1933
Usherwood and Spencer - Smith. NAM 1987
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Mr M. Cooper

Mr M. Cooper

Posts : 2522
Join date : 2011-09-29
Location : Lancashire, England.

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySat Jan 27, 2018 6:41 pm

The new recruiting campaign for the army is totally disgusting, it's a load of multi-culti PC rubbish. Political Correctness (cultural Marxism), and multi-culti is ruining Britain and its history. It would appear that recruits can enlist just as long as they have been PC brainwashed by the loony left Marxists teachers that are indoctrinating and brainwashing the younger generations with their social engineering at schools, colleges and uni's. Just the other day a London Underground Station had to erase a tribute to the men of the 24th (2nd Warwickshire) regiment that defended RD, because ONE person complained that it was British imperialism and colonialism, that ONE person was the idiotic ignorant imbecile Lily Allen, who of course is one of the generation of brainwashed snowflakes. Bit of a do when a tribute to brave men is erased because of some loony left twerp.
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90th

90th

Posts : 10178
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Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: National Army Museum    National Army Museum EmptySat Jan 27, 2018 11:04 pm

Hi MOCP
I probably couldn't have said it any better ! Suspect No No No No No No
90th AKA the Wombat ! lollll
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2388
Join date : 2011-09-12

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySun Jan 28, 2018 8:38 am

I read that too. Perhaps we could complain about Lily Allen and ask to have her removed?
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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 869
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySun Jan 28, 2018 9:17 am

Hi

Now that the Lily Allen thing has finally hit the forum, I can let you know I have a connection with Lily Allen.....her aunt's best friends dog bit my trousers (honestly)......outside a pub in the town I live in......I was on my way to work and it went for me.....

The aunty, her friend (someone called 'Dozy' Hudson - dunno why, Hudson must be his surname) and the dog were outside the pub, having a cigarette (obviously not the dog - he gave up smoking a while ago but has a drink problem, so I have been told) and fast as lightening it went for my trouser leg.

Six degrees of separation, and all that.

Cheers

Sime

ps, I like the Lady Butler painting - never seen that one before, I like her style of painting.




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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySun Jan 28, 2018 10:01 am


Then I recommend to you 'Lady Butler: Battle Artist' by Usherwood and Spencer-Smith which has all her paintings and sketchbooks examples with commentary.
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SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 869
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Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySun Jan 28, 2018 11:38 am

Thanks Julian,

I have been trawling the internet, collecting images of her paintings and putting them into a PowerPoint presentation for myself.

Cheers

Simon
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2388
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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySun Jan 28, 2018 1:41 pm

Well, the book offers a complete listing of her works (as well as a few other artists' works for comparison purposes) with close ups and sketches for inclusion plus info about each picture - where it is is hung, etc.  The historical text is not up to date but it's lost nothing artistically. It also includes a black-and-white photo of the original a later part-destroyed painting which is interesting.
Get it from a library and see what you think.
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xhosa2000

xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySun Jan 28, 2018 7:06 pm

Elizabeth Southerden Thompson, Lady Butler (3 November 1846 – 2 October 1933)

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xhosa2000

xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyFri Feb 02, 2018 12:54 pm

This has a few familiar face's.

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From Lady Butler. her life and work. Wilfred Meynell 1898.
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyFri Feb 02, 2018 3:51 pm

This from Lady Butler's autobiography. First, on her views of Lord Chelmsford (the picture she talks about showing is Remnants of an Army).

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And then on being requested by Queen Victoria to paint Rorke's Drift. She clearly was not keen to do it!
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Steve Reinstadtler
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyFri Feb 02, 2018 3:55 pm

Steve
Very interesting indeed!
Thanks for posting it.
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyFri Feb 02, 2018 4:35 pm

Why is it that whenever you say something is "very interesting" I am left feeling you have noticed something I haven't ?

Steve
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Julian Whybra



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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyFri Feb 02, 2018 4:48 pm

Ha!
Well, in truth with all the earlier kerfuffle over Pte Jenkins, your post does state categorically that she only used participants from the battle as models for her painting. Just another nail in the wall and in her own words!
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyFri Feb 02, 2018 5:11 pm

If, as she says, the survivors put on a re-enactment for her in Portsmouth, I wonder how many eventually had engravings of her painting on their walls - perhaps too expensive for most though. Don't think I have ever seen a contemporary engraving for sale.

Steve
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyFri Feb 02, 2018 6:09 pm

Steve,

There is a sepia-toned photogravure of Lady Butler’s Rorke’s Drift that appeared in 1890’s part-work. I know of no other contemporary print of the work. A number of her other works were reproduced by the Fine Art Society as prints.

JY
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyFri Feb 02, 2018 6:14 pm

Thanks John. I have seen some very nice ones of Inkerman and The Roll Call (at a price!). Surprising it wasn't done for her RD. Which part-work was it?

Steve
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John Young

John Young

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyFri Feb 02, 2018 6:55 pm

Steve,

I will have to dig through the storage boxes to answer that!

JY
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptyFri Feb 02, 2018 7:45 pm

Sorry John, not a priority.

Steve
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nitro450

nitro450

Posts : 151
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Location : Sydney, Australia

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySat Feb 03, 2018 12:18 am

I have two, one is "The Return from Inkerman" and the other, "The Return from Balaclava", both from Paintings by Lady Butler. Apparently they came with the December Christmas number of "The Illustrated Sporting and Drematic News". Inkerman in 1909 and Balaclava 1911. Nicely framed in original Oak frames of the period. Salute Salute
Nitro.
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rusteze

rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: National Army Museum   National Army Museum EmptySat Feb 03, 2018 1:00 am

Very nice.

Steve
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