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 John Poole 80th Regiment

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1879graves
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Tim Needham

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PostSubject: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyMon Dec 24, 2018 10:40 pm

Hello all,

An interesting article relating to 1549 Pte John Poole, claiming that he was a survivor of Intombi - my understanding is that there is no definitive list of men who survived so very possibly genuine?

Click Here

As ever, any further knowledge of him would be welcome.

Regards,

Tim
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90th

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PostSubject: John Poole 80th Regt    John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyTue Dec 25, 2018 1:05 am

Hi Tim ( merry Christmas Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Merry Christmas )
You're probably aware , but sadly due to a bombing raid in WW2 all the papers relating to the court martial were destroyed . To date no record has come to light that names all the soldiers who took part in the battle and survived .Only nine soldiers of the 80th Regt who fought and lived to tell of their escape can be confidently named on the basis of the information presently available . This from Robert Hope's ' A Staffordshire Regt In The Zulu & Sekukuni Campaigns 1878- 1879 ' . Unfortunately Poole isn't listed .
90th Salute
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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyTue Dec 25, 2018 11:36 am

Merry Christmas 90th!

Many thanks, I too consulted Robert's book and was disappointed not to see a mention of Poole as a definate survivor - this of course doesn't mean he wasn't there, but I suppose until further evidence comes to light to confirm one way or another he'll have to go down as a 'maybe'.

I have spoken to Robert Hope and he unfortunately has no further knowledge of John Poole's involvement in the engagement.

All the best,

Tim
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Herbie




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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyThu Dec 27, 2018 9:52 am

An interesting article and Pte Poole goes on my list as a possible or even probable survivor. I have Robert Hopes book as well and the list of 9 confirmed survivors but wonder whether there are any other “possibles” that have been identified? Also apart from Lt Harvard who was OC A Coy I believe at the time I cannot trace the Coy for any of the other survivors even Sgt Booth, does anyone have any info on this? Regards Phil
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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyThu Dec 27, 2018 11:11 am

In the 1911 census John Poole was living at 23 Brook St Wrexham with his wife, four sons and two daughters. The couple had a total of 10 children. He volunteered for the Territorial Force in WW1 and was discharged in Sept. 1916 - he was 64.

Steve
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyThu Dec 27, 2018 11:53 am

Hi All

An interesting Newspaper report of 1927, an Old Comrade's Dinner, J Poole attended.


Two others were there that could have said J Poole was not a survivor of Intombi, they were Lieut.-Gen. Sir Charles Tucker and Private Stephen Costello.

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Lichfield Mercury 30 September 1927
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Tim Needham

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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyThu Dec 27, 2018 3:39 pm

Hello Graves,

Yes, good find - another potential bit of evidence indicating that he was indeed present at the massacre?

Regards,

Tim
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyFri Jul 22, 2022 4:45 pm


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Liverpool Echo - Monday 11 March 1929
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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyTue Jul 26, 2022 8:29 pm

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Liverpool Echo - Saturday 23 December 1933
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyTue Jul 26, 2022 10:35 pm

With so many officers of the regt. present at that dinner, Poole's assertion, if not genuine, would have been called out immediately. I think Poole has to be taken very seriously.
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rai




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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptySat Jun 24, 2023 7:55 am

Hi All
John Poole appears on the findagrave website.
Rai KLH
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptySat Jun 24, 2023 9:58 am

I think that taken together there is a body of evidence to endorse the view that he was at Intombi and survived. The reunion report by itself is decisive. Imagine a fraudulent claim of surviving Isandhlwana being expressed at a reunion dinner of the 24th in 1927 - it simply wouldn't have washed. The danger of exposure would have been too great if Poole had not been telling the truth.
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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptySat Jun 24, 2023 5:47 pm

Hi All

Confirmation of him being a survivor I think. I think Guest of Honour at the South Staffordshire Regiment's Dinner is good enough evidence.

If you look up the following information you will find these details:

WREXHAM HISTORY
www. wrexham-history.com

https://www.wrexham-history.com/john-poole-1852-1933/#

As reported in the Wrexham Leader

Corporal John Poole. A survivor of the battle of Intombi between Zulu forces and British soldiers.

By the death, which took place on Saturday 31st May 1933, Wrexham lost a well known figure in Corporal John Poole, who was the last survivor of the Intombi River Massacre 54 years ago.

Corporal Poole, who was 81 years of age, had resided in Brook street, Wrexham, for many years, and only a day or two prior to this did he remove to the Corporation new estate at Spring Lodge.
March of this year (1933) saw the 54th anniversary of the Massacre, when a convoy of 100 men was ambushed by 4000 Zulus, and only nine of the hundred escaped from the Massacre, Corporal Poole being the last survivor.
He was at the time serving with the South Staffordshire Regiment, and escaped by swimming the flooded Intombi River, and then ran four and a half miles to rejoin his Battalion.
Corporal Poole also saw service in China and the Malacca Straits, and was the Guest of Honour at the South Staffordshire Regiment's Dinner a few years previous.

The funeral took place at Wrexham cemetery. A- ,05846.

Hope this confirms his presence.

Regards Eddie
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptySun Jun 25, 2023 2:00 pm

Eddie
That's strange. I thought there were already nine named survivors known from previous reports yet your report from the Wrexham Leader is suggesting that Poole was one of the nine.
Does anyone have a list of those who escaped?
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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptySun Jun 25, 2023 2:04 pm

Hi Julian

Yes, I was thinking the same. Either he was one of the nine or the tenth unidentified survivor. There has to be a list somewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptySun Jun 25, 2023 2:09 pm

Hi Julian

That could also suggest, one of the named on the list of nine survivors should not be there perhaps.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptySun Jun 25, 2023 2:34 pm

That's what I was thinking...
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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptySun Jun 25, 2023 3:01 pm

Hi gents
There were actually approximately 66 survivors of the battle I believe. This includes approx 43 men of the 80th foot plus about 8 white conductors or drivers and about 15 native drivers or voorloopers. There were about 70-71 troops on the North bank of the river and about 34-35 on the South Bank. The 9 listed in Hope are only those known survivors of the 80th at the time he wrote his (excellent) book.

Note that the newspaper article above says Poole was one of 9 (80th Foot?) survivors who escaped the battle by swimming the river (ie he started on the North Bank) whilst the majority of the survivors were from the South bank.

Combining Hope’s list with 3 or 4 others found by members of this site I think a fuller list of survivors is as follows:

Lt Henry Harward (OC A Coy) -South bank
919 Sgt Anthony Booth - South bank
762 Cpl George Brew - probably North bank
2054 LCpl William Burgess - South bank
499 Pte William Crawford - North bank
1199 Pte William Deacon
1045 Pte Josiah Fallon
704 Pte Martin Hogan
1506 Pte Peter Lewis
1549 Pte John Poole - probable - North bank
138 Pte Frank Stokes - probable
1597 Pte John Foulkes - probable
525 Pte George Hughes (very doubtful)
Driver Josiah Sussens - West Bank - detailed account in Hope
Driver ‘Cock’ Jones
Plus others unknown - approx 30 from 80th Foot, plus approx 7 white and 15 native conductors, drivers and voorloopers.

Hope this helps.
Regards
Phil


Last edited by Herbie on Sun Aug 20, 2023 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptySun Jun 25, 2023 3:40 pm

Excellent. Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptySun Jun 25, 2023 4:35 pm

Hi All 

My earlier thread " Miss Millais" today at 1:06pm mentions " Lieutenant James has escaped such dangers as Isandula and Intombi "
Wether he was present or a member of the 80th I do not know, maybe they are saying he avoided the battles by being elsewhere, but if he was present, then he, whoever he is, may be added to the list.


Last edited by Eddie on Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptySun Jun 25, 2023 4:41 pm

Hi All 

It seems he was elsewhere, as mentioned by John in my other thread Miss Millais today. Cheers John.
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyMon Jun 26, 2023 7:08 am

I'm just querying his date of death given in the papers above.
The Liverpool Echo 23.12.1933 states he died "last night".
The (undated) Wrexham Leader gives his death as 31.5.1933.
One of them made a curious error.
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PostSubject: John Poole 80th Regt    John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyTue Jun 27, 2023 5:12 am

Eddie not sure if my post on Miss Mallais is of any help ?
90th .
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyTue Jun 27, 2023 7:34 am

The gravestone says died 22.12.1933, the General Registry has him dying Oct-Dec 1933 (Wrexham 11b 33) so it looks like the Wrexham Leader made a printing error in the date of death.
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PostSubject: Re: John Poole 80th Regiment   John Poole 80th Regiment EmptyTue Jun 27, 2023 10:24 pm

Hi 90th

Yes, I understood that that was what and why the newspaper article was referring to it in that way. Thank you
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