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 Names and Faces at Isandhlwana

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Frank Allewell
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PostSubject: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySat Mar 23, 2019 3:30 pm

This morning I added my photo of L/Cpl. Henry Weatherhead 1/24th and his family to Admins. post of yesterday about his wife, Mary Ann, who passed away at the age of 101.

It made me think about how many named photos we have of those imperial soldiers killed at Isandhlwana (leaving aside officers who are well covered). I may be wrong, but I cannot think of any off hand. There must be others out there - I cannot imagine my Henry is unique. Who am I missing?

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySat Mar 23, 2019 8:22 pm

Bonsoir Steve,
Thank for your post about L/Cpl Henry Weatherhead, 1/24th and his family.
About, your question, I have 5 names in head.
Pte Owen Ellis,
Col-Sgt Fred Wolfe (possibly),
Col-Sgt William Edwards,
Bandmaster Harry Bullard,
The last, I am not sure of his name Popworth (Gardner's servant?),
I am sure there are another: I have forgotten the name of one of them...
Cheers
fred
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySat Mar 23, 2019 9:05 pm

Ian knights ancestor?

Cooper!
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySat Mar 23, 2019 9:20 pm

Frank,
Right ("silver" book.
An another from Royal Artillery Robert Whinham.
Fred
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySat Mar 23, 2019 9:32 pm

Sgt John Robert Edwards, 1/24th
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySat Mar 23, 2019 9:37 pm

[i]t seems Popworth's name is wrong. I can't remember his name...
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySat Mar 23, 2019 9:42 pm

Pte Samuel Popple 2/24th
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySat Mar 23, 2019 9:45 pm

Steve,
I am still waiting your essay on L/Cpl Henry Weatherhead....
Amitié
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySat Mar 23, 2019 11:46 pm

Gentlemen

Thank you. I think I make that nine altogether - lets double that and say there may be 20 or so that have been identified by somebody or published somewhere. For comparison, I have taken an early estimate from Julian in his book "The Roll Call" and calculate that there were 826 NCOs and other ranks from the imperial battalions and corps who were lost on that day. So we know of a miserably small percentage and, so far as I am aware, they have never been brought together and memorialised. My feeling is there should be something quite specific, in their memory, at Brecon. I will try to identify the photos of those you have named - any help on that would be much appreciated.

PS My essay on Henry Weatherhead is likely to emerge at the same time as Frank's on the Eastern Plain!

Steve
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PostSubject: Names and faces at Isandlwana    Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySun Mar 24, 2019 4:57 am

Hi Steve
From memory , Ian Knight's relative on his mothers side is Sgt Cooper 1313 1/ 24th KIA Isandlwana ,
90th
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySun Mar 24, 2019 9:31 am

Steve,
Popple is on the forum.
Wolfe on the famous photograph of Cavaye's Coy (Hill of the Sphinx),
Bullard at Brecon Museum,
William Edwards in Julian Whybra's essay,
For the others, I need to search.
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySun Mar 24, 2019 9:43 am

Steve,

Cpl Harry Richardson is identified in Ian Knight's silver book amongst the 1/24th Pioneer section photograph, also Brecon have copies of two images of Sgt George Wilkins 2/24th.

Regards,

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyTue Mar 26, 2019 10:31 am

Steve,
I made a mistake about Owen Ellis (sorry).
Another Private from the 24th on the list:
1794 Pte Ashley Goatham (photography on the forum).
Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyThu Mar 28, 2019 1:08 pm

An update based on suggestions so far, for which thanks. It is a sobering fact that it seems we have just 7 identifiable images of those 826 imperial soldiers who gave their lives on 22 January. That is a depressingly low figure and serves to underline how far away we really are from a proper appreciation of who lies beneath all of those enigmatic cairns. At the time of the disaster it was extremely common for soldiers to have cheap CDVs produced to send home and so there must be many more such images out there - not always of course with any notation to tell us who they were. But 7 out of 826 surely cannot be the final count. A work in progress.
Acknowledgement in particular of Ian Knights big silver book for the images of Cooper, Richardson and Wolfe.
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Steve
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PostSubject: Names and faces at Isandlwana    Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyThu Mar 28, 2019 1:12 pm

I'm thinking if anyone will have some of those ' Missing ' cdv's it might be JY and Ron Sheeley , possibly another couple of others on here may have some as well ( ? )
90th Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyThu Mar 28, 2019 2:16 pm

Hi Gary

Yes, maybe so. But many more must still be with families in old albums and boxes gathering dust. Families are also more likely to know who they were, but of course they are not necessarily aware of the significance to the historical record.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyThu Mar 28, 2019 2:50 pm

Steve between pages 208 and 210. Philip Gons Road to iSandlwana.
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyThu Mar 28, 2019 5:41 pm

Thanks Frank, will take a look.
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyThu Mar 28, 2019 7:25 pm

Steve,

The photograph of the cavalryman - top centre of your 12:08 post - who is that supposed to represent?

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyThu Mar 28, 2019 7:51 pm

John

Interesting question. It came from a forum entry back in March 2012 under that name. But I must say I originally had is as Samuel Popple of G Coy. 2/24th.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyThu Mar 28, 2019 8:36 pm

Steve,

There’s photograph of Pte. Popple in the Graves section - it certainly isn’t him.

I did a search on the names you listed and it came up as Ashley Goatham. However, that photograph most certainly is not that of a member of the 24th. Judging by the stable jacket and the round forage cap he is a mounted soldier, either cavalry or pre-1880 Royal Artillery.

Frankly, unless there is evidence of prior military service in such mounted corps, I think we can discount the identification as erroneous.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyThu Mar 28, 2019 8:55 pm


John
I think your probably right. I have added Popple and removed Goatham for now - perhaps someone can clarify his entry.

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Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyMon Apr 01, 2019 1:15 pm

The photo of 1-24/1289 Colour-Sergeant William Edwards E coy, 1/24th is in Studies in the Zulu War vol III page 2.  I'll let someone else scan and post it.
As for the total Europeans kia, my England's Sons gives

Europeans:
Military 702 Imperial Regulars, 144 Colonial Forces, total 846
Civilian Attachments to the Imperial Forces 11 total 11

with a further possible 6 civilian attachments to the Imperial Forces whose fate was unknown.
These I believe are the most accurate figures to date.

Do not forget that there is a photo of survivor Pte. James Bickley.  It will appear with a letter in the next Studies in the Zulu War volume.
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyMon Apr 01, 2019 7:04 pm

Thanks Julian. I have added Colour Sergeant Edwards. Thanks also for the update on numbers, still an awfully small percentage known - it strikes me that Weatherhead's is the only family group so far.
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Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyTue Apr 02, 2019 5:23 pm

There is also the photo of another OR survivor - Pte. Power 1/24th.
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptyWed Apr 03, 2019 12:19 pm

Steve,
Trumpeter Martin, R.A (a survivor).
Amitié
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySat Apr 06, 2019 6:04 pm

There is a photo of Sergt. and Bandmaster Henry James Bullard in the National Army Museum apparently.


Last edited by Julian Whybra on Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySat Apr 06, 2019 7:48 pm

Tim Needham has kindly unearthed three additional images, one of which is Bullard. The others two are both of Sgt. G S Wilkins of E Coy. 2/24. They are from the NAM and Brecon and we have agreed that neither of those two establishments would take kindly to riding roughshod over their copyright. So I will add the names to the list, but wait and see whether our friends are happy for the images to appear.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Names and Faces at Isandhlwana   Names and Faces at Isandhlwana EmptySun Apr 07, 2019 8:27 am

Bravo Steve & Tim!
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