WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Anson A. Mayer/Maher
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyToday at 12:38 am by Eddie

» Late Father's Militaria Collection
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 2:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySun Apr 21, 2024 11:28 am by Eddie

» Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native Contingent
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySat Apr 20, 2024 9:26 am by SRB1965

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young

» No. 985. PTE. EDWARD READ. 2-24 Regt. (South Wales Borders).
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySun Apr 14, 2024 8:12 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private Willis 2/24th Regiment his letter from South Africa
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySat Apr 13, 2024 2:49 pm by 1879graves

» Sickness among Crealock's men
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 12, 2024 4:52 pm by Hobbes

» Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse Artillery
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyTue Apr 09, 2024 5:20 pm by Kenny

» Brevet Major W.R.B. Chamberlin
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 5:44 pm by Jager1

» Private 1941 Samuel MacClue / McClune 1/24th Regiment
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 3:11 pm by Dash

» Sergeant W E Warren RA - Veteran
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 10:50 am by DavidS

» "With 6 good riflemen"
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySat Apr 06, 2024 5:10 pm by Hobbes

» Punch's view of Chelmsford's tactics!
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyWed Apr 03, 2024 5:17 pm by SRB1965

» Colonialism: A Moral Legacy
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyMon Apr 01, 2024 11:16 am by Julian Whybra

» John Robert Dunn
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 12:09 pm by 90th

» An early memorial to the Prince Imperial?
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 10:35 am by John Young

» The Poem "A Child Hero" referring to Rupert Weatherley
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Mar 29, 2024 1:07 pm by Bongo

» Writing advice
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyTue Mar 26, 2024 2:26 pm by Julian Whybra

» Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyWed Mar 20, 2024 12:53 pm by Dash

» Your favourite line from Zulu or Zulu Dawn
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 4:52 pm by Julian Whybra

» 100,000 posts!
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyTue Mar 19, 2024 2:20 pm by Julian Whybra

» Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 2:34 pm by jgregory

» Badge on 2/60th and 3/60th foreign service helmets
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySat Mar 16, 2024 11:05 am by John Young

» Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company.
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Mar 15, 2024 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» British rations and morale
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 11:05 pm by Julian Whybra

» Blue Plaque to James Egan, alias Private Hagan
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyMon Mar 11, 2024 9:16 pm by ADMIN

» A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyWed Mar 06, 2024 9:16 pm by Julian Whybra

» William J Hoare 24th Regiment??
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySun Mar 03, 2024 7:08 pm by Dash

» Swinburn Carbine issue in AZW
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 12:53 pm by Rob D

» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 8:39 am by John Young

» Philip Price
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:55 am by Julian Whybra

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyThu Feb 29, 2024 7:47 am by RoryReynolds

» August Hammar Letter Dated 6th Jan 1879
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyThu Feb 22, 2024 8:34 pm by Stefaan

» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 10:57 am by Julian Whybra

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
April 2024
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
1234567
891011121314
15161718192021
22232425262728
2930     
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
Hobbes
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_leftCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  BarCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_leftCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  BarCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_right 
John Young
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_leftCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  BarCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_right 
A Crockart
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_leftCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  BarCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_right 
Petty Officer Tom
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_leftCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  BarCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_right 
SRB1965
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_leftCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  BarCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_right 
Kenny
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_leftCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  BarCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_right 
Jager1
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_leftCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  BarCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_right 
Eddie
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_leftCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  BarCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_right 
Dash
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_leftCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  BarCharles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Bar_right 
New topics
» Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native Contingent
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySat Apr 20, 2024 12:38 am by WeekendWarrior

» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 19, 2024 7:04 am by John Young

» Late Father's Militaria Collection
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyThu Apr 18, 2024 3:04 pm by A Crockart

» Anson A. Mayer/Maher
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyTue Apr 16, 2024 5:28 pm by cmeghen

» A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySun Apr 14, 2024 8:01 pm by Hobbes

» Sickness among Crealock's men
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyThu Apr 11, 2024 8:51 pm by Hobbes

» Wheeler John Cantwell DCM, RD survivor of the Royal Horse Artillery
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySun Apr 07, 2024 9:36 pm by Hobbes

» John Robert Dunn
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptySat Mar 30, 2024 11:47 am by SueSNB

» The Poem "A Child Hero" referring to Rupert Weatherley
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Mar 29, 2024 1:07 pm by Bongo

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?

Go down 
3 posters
AuthorMessage
JoshHutchings




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-04-10
Location : Bristol, England

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 9:33 am

Dear all of the 1879 Zulu War Forum,

My name is Josh Hutchings and this is my first post on here.

I am currently writing a biography of the Hutchings & Son tailoring establishment my ancestors owned in Wincanton, Somerset for over a century throughout the Victorian Era.

One of said tailors named Arundel Arthur Hutchings left for South Africa in the 1870s.

Arundel's brother-in-law was a man named Charles Black, born around 1858 in Cushendall, County Antrim, Ireland though lived out in South Africa.

Charles Black died aged 24 on 8th Jan 1882 at Umgeni Road (or Woodville, Umgeni) of malarial fever.

On his death notice (available on FamilySearch), his sister Lizzie Black listed his occupation as "Late Baker's Horse"

On his death register (also on FamilySearch) he was listed as working as an "Engineer"

I am trying to ascertain whether he was a Baker's Horse or not, is anyone able to assist?
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8572
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 77
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 10:35 am

Hi Josh
Bakers horse served in the 1879 war but he isnt on the medal roll so its possible he joined when the regiment was re formed in 1880 for the Basuto Rebellion in Griqualand. The regiment disbanded again in 1882, it was raised and disbanded in Natal. Cam Simpson has been researching that era and the regiments involved but last I heard he was in Morocco, Im not sure if he managed to get back to SA before the lockdown.
I will try and make contact.
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3237
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 11:10 am

Josh,

There is no trace of anyone named Black serving in Baker’s Horse during the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879.  

There are two C. Blacks on the 1877-8-9 Medal Roll: Private 613 C. Black of the 90th Light Infantry and Domestic 3rd Class C. L. Black of H.M.S. Euphrates.

Now just to confuse matters - Baker’s Horse were raised again in 1880-1.  However, I have checked the Cape of Good Hope General Service Medal Roll, and neither of the men with the surname Black served in Baker’s Horse - Sergeant D. Black, Umtata Volunteers & Private W. Black, Cape Mounted Riflemen.

Sorry best I can do.

JY

(Frank, we were obviously typing at the same time.)
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8572
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 77
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 11:14 am

Hi John
yep Ive got the same results. Cam by the way is stuck in lock down in Casablanca. Not a happy lad.
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3237
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 11:27 am

Frank,

I bet he’s in Rick Blaine’s place, awaiting his letters of transit.

“As time goes by...”


JY
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8572
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 77
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 12:53 pm

Fond memories
Back to top Go down
JoshHutchings




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-04-10
Location : Bristol, England

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 2:19 pm

I am really at a loss then, folks!

I suppose these are the arguments for him being involved with Baker's Horse:
- He was in Natal Colony at the time,
- He was the right sort of age (early 20s),
- He was British (Roman Catholic Irish),
- His own sister wrote on his death record that his job was a late Baker's Horse
- He was in need of money (I heard that poor young men were inclined towards military positions as it was paid work? I know he was poor because he died with very little in his will)

Arguments against his involvement with Baker's Horse:
- He does not show up on any of the service medal records for any of the times Baker's Horse were raised...

Why might his sister, who was also living in South Africa, think that her little brother was a late Baker's Horse?

Is there any possibility that he could've been with this irregular regiment and not been awarded a medal for it? (I really am completely ignore of military service, so apologies!)

I am really befuddled! I wonder if this enigmatic man stranded in Casablanca might be of any further assistance?
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3237
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 3:36 pm

Josh,

Can you post a link or post a photograph of his sister’s text?  I just wonder if there might have been some misinterpretation of a word perhaps?

That said there was certainly a delay in issuing the Cape of Good Hope General Service Medal.  Which might be an indicator of the latter campaign.  Just a thought.

I take it you have searched the National Archives of South Africa for any clues?

JY
Back to top Go down
JoshHutchings




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-04-10
Location : Bristol, England

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 3:46 pm

Unfortunately I live in England and have never visited South Africa! I'm looking forward to spending some time there looking through archives, once this pandemic has passed I'll be out there.

Here are three images of documents related to his death:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Back to top Go down
JoshHutchings




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-04-10
Location : Bristol, England

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 3:49 pm

The first image is a letter written to the Court by Charles Black's sister after he died, outlining that she forgot to attach a document to his file (not of much use to us)

The second image is his death notice, which states Charles Black's job as an "engineer"

The third image is Charles Black's death register, filled out by his sister, with his occupation listed as "Late Baker's Horse"
Back to top Go down
JoshHutchings




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-04-10
Location : Bristol, England

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 3:54 pm

Something that may be of interest, is according to the third image, Charles Black left £4 16s in "prize" money"(?) in the hands of "Capt Davey" - Is this a further lead? Who is Capt Davey?
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3237
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 4:34 pm

Josh,

More than likely that is Captain & Adjutant N. E. Davey, Natal Volunteer Forces.

Prize money was given for taking the enemy’s cattle.

Given that the earlier Baker’s Horse was raised in Cape Colony in 1878 for service in Zulu Campaign, I feel that he might well have served in the 1880-1 unit which as Frank mentions above was raised in Natal.

The National Archives of South Africa have an online search facility, I recommend that you search the Pietermaritzburg archive.

JY
Back to top Go down
JoshHutchings




Posts : 6
Join date : 2020-04-10
Location : Bristol, England

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 4:53 pm

You guys are brilliant.

Thank you so much for the assistance here, I believe I may have taken a few steps in the right direction today with your guidance.

I do hope that fellow stuck in Moroccan will see this post at some point!
Back to top Go down
John Young

John Young


Posts : 3237
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 68
Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!

Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?    Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?  EmptyFri Apr 10, 2020 6:22 pm

Josh,

There’s a good reference dated 1882 in the Pietermaritzburg Archive, that might be of some use, albeit that there is a spelling error in the catalogue in relation to Willoughby’s Horse:

DEPOT NAB
SR/SN 000/00
SOURCE CSO
TYPE LEER
VOLUME_NO 858
SYSTEM 01
REFERENCE 1882/2024
PART 1
DESCRIPTION COLONIAL SECRETARY, CAPE OF GOOD HOPE. TELEGRAMS ABOUT EXTRA PAY FOR
CAPTAIN DAVEY, NATAL MOUNTED POLICE FOR LABOUR ENTAILED ON HIM IN
PAYING PRIZE MONEY TO BAKER'S AND WILLONGHBY'S HORSE ON BEHALF OF
CAPE GOVERNMENT.
STARTING 1882
ENDING 1882
REMARKS T1882/423, V1882/639, VC1882/4, CSO1882/1789, CSO1882/1878.

I feel it is beyond doubt that Charles served in 1880-1 unit.

JY
Back to top Go down
 
Charles Black - Late Baker's Horse?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Trooper W. Tamer Bakers horse / Bakers light horse.
» Corporal George Ashby was in Pulleine's Rangers and Baker's Horse.
» Major A. Prendergast, Natal Police, Late Lonsdale’s Horse.

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: DID THEY OR DIDN'T THEY TAKE PART IN THE ZULU WAR-
Jump to: