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 Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry

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gcooper




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PostSubject: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Oct 18, 2021 3:59 pm

For years now, I and another local historian have been trying to track down local men who fought in the Zulu War. We have found several but one is something of a puzzle, namely Private Frederick Butler of the 2/24th, who served with the Mounted Infantry. A Private F. Butler 24th was awarded the South Africa Medal and his service number is given as 1199 and information apparently from the regimental museum at Brecon indicates he served as a saddler with the 2nd Squadron IMI, which I believe was with Pearson's No.1 Column.

The puzzling part(s) are notifications in a local paper that first seem to imply that he was a casualty at Isandlwana, then a later notification from his father, a local innkeeper, that Butler was still alive 'that he had narrowly escaped, and that he had written a letter to his father descriptive of the battle and its atrocities.' (Staffordshire Sentinel and Commercial & General Advertiser 5 April 1879, p.5)

Admittedly, the wording is vague and I'm loathe to trust anything written in a newspaper and unfortunately the letter does not seem to have been published anywhere, so I have not been able to look into it further. I am wondering if Butler was describing his being involved in the fighting at Inyezane and his father and the local press confused it with Isandlwana.

This is probably a long shot, but I was wondering if anyone else had come across anything on Private Butler or his unit that might confirm or refute some of these details?


Last edited by gcooper on Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Oct 18, 2021 4:25 pm

gcooper,

Can you give an inkling as what the report states?  So I can draw some conclusions.

2nd Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment certainly supplied a number of other-ranks to 2nd Squadron, Mounted Infantry.  Norman Holme lists 1199 F. Butler as serving in the Mounted Infantry in his work The Noble 24th.

There were 115 other-ranks of 2nd Squadron, Mounted Infantry, present at the Battle of Nyezane on 22nd January, 1879.

JY
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Oct 18, 2021 4:43 pm

gcooper,

I take that there is nothing further than the ‘Victims of the War’ piece?  Which is hardly enlightening.

JY


Last edited by John Young on Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Oct 18, 2021 6:14 pm

Here you are John this is the whole article  relating to Butler the 'Mounted Infantryman' Wink

"Victims of War- We are requested to state that practical methods are being made to raise funds for a memorial to three brave men from this town who fell in the disastrous battle of Isandula. Mr Butler of the Bell and Bear is taking the initiative and he will gladly receive subscriptions and co-operation from any of his townsmen. - As it has been reported that Mr Butler's son, who is in the mounted infantry in Zululand, had also fallen in the war, it may be interesting to some of our readers to learn that he narrowly escaped, and that he has written a letter to his father descriptive of the battle and its atrocities"

Would be interested to read that letter.

Kate Very Happy
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Oct 18, 2021 6:38 pm

Hello Kate,

Thanks for that. I say he “narrowly escaped” by virtue of the fact he was in another part of KwaZulu, being at Nyezane rather than iSandlwana.

Likewise I would like to see the letter his father received.

I think that one of the ‘three brave men’ was Sergeant 2336 William Shaw, 2nd/24th, who left behind a widow and four children.

JY

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gcooper




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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Oct 18, 2021 7:01 pm

Ah, thank you Kate, you beat me to it. And thank you for the info John, I'm lacking copies of Holme's books. Yes, Sergeant Shaw was doubtless one of the 'three', the others being Privates Hickin and Glass, though there were about four other locals that fell at Isandlwana. I agree, that letter, whether Isandlwana or most likely Inyezane, would have been an interesting document.

There is a later article that mentions Frederick Butler in which he voices his support for Lord Chelmsford. Like the above article though, it is just some reporter's paraphrasing rather than the letter itself. I'll see if I can dig it out.


Last edited by gcooper on Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Oct 18, 2021 7:31 pm

gcooper
For your  info N02 Squad Mounted Infantry with No1 Column was   commanded by Captain Percy Barrows 19th Hussars (1846-1886) who occupied the lower portion of the ground at Nyezane in which there were  2 mounted infantry wounded at the engagement.
Private Joseph Morgan 2/24th was also detached for mounted duty with No1 Column.
His account can be read in Frank Emery's 'The Red Soldier' p188

The Mounted Infantry being sent back to Fort Pearson once No1  column was besieged at Eshowe
Butler had the 1877-78-79 clasp.
Kate Very Happy
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gcooper




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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Oct 18, 2021 8:06 pm

Thank you Kate. I know someone who has a copy of the Red Soldier, so I'll ask him if he can send me the account, or even let me borrow the book, it's been a while since I last read it.

Here is the extra article that mentions Butler and a couple of other local soldiers at the end of the war. As before it tantalises us, but doesn't really say much:

'Staffordshire Men in Zulu land.
A man named John Bentley, in the 80th Regiment, Colonel Wood's column, writing home from Newcastle, South Africa, on the 8th July makes the extraordinary statement that Cetewayo has been captured; and that in the last battle 8,000 Zulus were killed. - Henry Warrilow, private in the 2nd company of the 21st Fusiliers, writes to his friends, at Fenton, that after battle of Ulundi fifteen hundred of the enemy were found dead the field, all the wounded being carried off; and adds that this custom carrying off wounded in the retreat is very dear to the Zulus, who know but little of the civilisation of the English apart from their high training in battle, and are afraid any of their wounded being taken prisoners, under impression that the English, like themselves massacre all they do not kill in open battle. - Frederick Butler, son of Mr. Butler, of  the Bell and Bear lnn, Shelton, writing on July 13th to his parents, makes special reference to the esteem in which Lord Chelmsford is held by the general body of soldiers at the seat of war, observing that they look upon him as “a brave and reliable man.”  He also, speaks the hardships the soldiers have to encounter, but gives also the bright as well the dark side of warfare in Africa.'

Staffordshire Sentinel and Commercial & General Advertiser, Saturday 23 August 1879. p.4
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Oct 18, 2021 8:46 pm

Thanks gcooper. I wonder if his letters are somewhere.

Heres something from one of Barrows letters dated September 1878 giving a bit of background about the Imperial Mounted infantry:-

"I have been given over 30 men from each of the three infantry regiments in this colony, the 2nd battalion 24th Regiment, the 1st Battalion 24th Regiment  and the 90th i.e. 90 men in all and am forming them into a squadron of mounted riflemen. A good many of these men acted as mounted riflemen down in the old colony, but they were never formed into one body.
Russell is forming a similar Squadron in the Transvaal. We are eventually to join and form a corp to be called
'Imperial Mounted Infantry' adding a squadron or two of volunteers and probably some natives...
The Squadron is the unit, each squadron told off into 4 divisions, 20 fighting men in each division. Each division has a leader and is told off into sections of 4."

He also gives a good description of their equipment and uniform if you are interested.

Heres the earlier report Staffordshire Sentinal 6th March 1879:-
"Death on the Battlefield - The names of Private Butler and Hicken appear in the list of the killed in Zululand. The former is the son of Mr William Butler of the Bell and Bear Inn, Shelton; and the latter is son of Mr Hicken, locksmith, High Street. Both were in the first battaliion 24th Regiment."

Kate Very Happy
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90th

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PostSubject: Private Frederick Butler Mtd Inf    Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyTue Oct 19, 2021 2:02 am

Hi All
For those who have Robert Hopes' ' A Staffordshire Regt In The Zulu & Sekukuni Campaigns 1878- 1879 , you'll find Frederick listed as being a member of the 2/24th on the roll of those listed as part of the No 2 Squadron Mtd Inf , this is on Page 368 .
90th
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyTue Oct 19, 2021 10:22 am

Good spot Gary. Salute
For those dashing to their bookcases its in Robert's thicker 2007 second edition. (rather than the 1997 editon)
Kate Very Happy
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gcooper




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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyTue Oct 19, 2021 10:32 am

Ah, mystery solved, thank you for those pointers Kate and 90th. I shall update my info; it's satisfying to have finally pinned Mr Butler down. Just as a post script, Frederick seems to have stayed in the army until the 1880s. He later married and appears to have taken over the running of the Bell and Bear Inn, Shelton, Stoke-on-Trent by 1891.
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyTue Oct 19, 2021 10:51 am

Fred, shown as a volunteer and residing at Cleveland House, also seems to have got himself into trouble on the 2nd May 1889 by shooting a morris tube in his garden. (this being his own invention that could fire a small projectile a long way)
The shot apparently ricocheted off a tree and hit engraver, Frank Guilford, in the head.
He had two operations to remove the bullet which was only stopped by the thickness of the victims skull which brought much laughter to the court room.
Staffordshire Sentinal 6th June 1889

Kate Very Happy
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gcooper




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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyTue Oct 19, 2021 11:31 am

Kate,
Poor Mr Guildford, I had to laugh as well. Following your reference I pulled the account up on the British Newspaper Archive, very interesting. I had been hoping for just a little bit more info on Fred Butler to update part of a post on my local history blog, but I think all of this deserves a separate post on it's own.

Gary Cooper
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1879graves

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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyTue Oct 19, 2021 7:24 pm

Hi Kate

Reading the article, had to laugh as well.

Great find Salute

Andy
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyFri Oct 29, 2021 2:24 pm

On a point of information, 2/24 1199 Pte. Frederick Butler was detached to the IMI on 1.9.1878 and returned to the regiment on 12.9.1879.
The 2nd squadron was formed from detachments from the 2/24th, 90th, 99th and 88th.  When Percy  Barrow (not Barrows) wrote his letter (Sept) a final decision on the allocation of the detachments to squadrons had not been made and he jumped the gun in writing as he did.  The 99th and the 88th only arrived on the MI scene in October.
I completed all the research I could on the 2nd squadron in the early 90s.  I have a rolls for both squadrons (less the 88th, the records for which are missing); the 2/24th contributed 41 officers and men to the 2nd squadron.  I lent this research to Robert Hope with my permission to quote from it in his book provided it was duly acknowledged.  Much to my surprise he then published all of it without any specific acknowledgement.  
(Un)Fortunately he made mistakes in his transcription so if anyone does require a check on a particular individual, I'd be pleased to supply info from my (accurate) rolls.
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Bill8183




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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyFri Oct 29, 2021 5:24 pm

Julian,

Did the 2nd Squadron incorporate men of the 1st Bn? I have a list of 20 individuals who went to Natal 10th Sept 1878 with another on the 12th. Also included were 3 men who were posted to Natal on the 30th June (hospital)? who were on the pay-list of the 90th and sent to pay-list Mounted infantry 1st Sept 1878. Was Lt. Clements with these?
(Sorry I cannot cross reference with your list of the 1st Sqn as I don't have access to the SOTQ article this weekend).

As listed from your notes in Hope's book you have D. Bryan as the only member of the 88th identified in the M.I. do you have 889 Pte. William Fitzgerald on payment 90th Regt 01-31/08/1878 to payment Mounted Inf Corps?

You have mentioned before you were planning to update your M.I. article for both Sqn's, is this still in the pipeline?

Regards,

Bill
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyFri Oct 29, 2021 10:05 pm

Q.  Did the 2nd Squadron incorporate men of the 1st Bn?
A.  No.  The 1/24th mentioned by Barrow in his September 1878 letter were returned to regimental
  duties.
Q.  I have a list of 20 individuals who went to Natal 10th Sept 1878 with another on the 12th. Also    
  included were 3 men who were posted to Natal on the 30th June (hospital)? who were on the pay-
  list of the 90th and sent to pay-list Mounted infantry 1st Sept 1878. Was Lt. Clements with these?
A.  Clements’s troop had been formed in Sept 1877.  He and his men returned to regtl. duties in Sept
  1878.  Philip Gon wrote that Clements and 17 infantrymen joined Pearson’s Column as part of the
  2nd Squadron a fortnight before 24th September 1878.  However, Lieut. Heaton’s diary states
  Clements was present at Helpmekaar on 22nd January and Mackinnon & Shadbolt state that he
  served throughout the war with his battalion.  This is verified in TNA: WO16 2490 MI paylists.  Gon was clearly in error.
   One officer and 30 men from the 90th were attached to the IMI in Sept 1879.  Your three men can
  only have been part of this group.  Let me know their names and I can confirm this for you.
  One 90th man was severely wounded at Inyezane and was obliged to be returned to Netley for
  treatment.  One extra 90th man replaced him on 1.4.79.
Q.  As listed from your notes in Hope's book you have D. Bryan as the only member of the 88th    
  identified in the M.I. do you have 889 Pte. William Fitzgerald on payment 90th Regt 01-31/08/1878
  to payment Mounted Inf Corps?
A.  I have still only been able to identify Bryan from the 88th contingent (there were 31 all told).  I
  think I’ve asked on the Forum before that if anyone has any update in this field I’d be pleased to
  see it, and include it with all due acknowledgement when/if published..  
   Fitzgerald I have not included as he was not included on the paylists of the detached 90th MI
  group from mid-Sept when Barrow received them.  I can only assume he (became ill/was not fit for
  purpose en route) and returned to the regiment.  I have not included him in the list as he was never officially part of the IMI 2nd squadron.
Q.  You have mentioned before you were planning to update your M.I. article for both Sqn's, is this
  still in the pipeline?
A.  Yes.  Covid has caused me quite a few problems in the publishing process and also in the writing.  
  I hope to get things back on track soon.  The IMI essay and rolls are still due to be included in a
  forthcoming Studies in the Zulu War.


Last edited by Julian Whybra on Sun Oct 31, 2021 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bill8183




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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptySat Oct 30, 2021 4:02 pm

Thanks for taking the time to reply Julian,

The 3 men I mentioned were actually 1/24th men on payment of the 90th Regt from 1st July-31st August 1878 not actually 90th men.

These are the men I have a query list for, listed in WO 16/1573 April-September 1878

To Natal 30th June 1878

472 Cpl Scrivenor, Pte's 313 Brown, 300 Crook, 1218 Holt, 829 Mangan, 111 Woodford, 1784 Wallis

To Natal 31st August 1878

338 Pte Lowe

Of the above Scrivenor, Crook, Holt, Lowe and Wallis were returned to their units and latterly sent to the General Depot at PMB.

The other three Brown, Mangan and Woodford were listed as "To pay-list M.I." joined by:

To Natal 10th Sept 1878

472 Cpl Jones, Pte's 489 Barnaby, 677 Coate, 282 Evans, 806 Fitzgerald, 122 Gavin, 195 Hedges, 174 Lloyd, 1904 Naylor, 615 Pritchard, 601 Seaborne, 492 Schofield, 592 Thomas, 276 Turbett, 336 Walsh, 214 Wilford.

With 12 Sep 1878 Pte 914 Moore.

You have the evidence to place Lt Clements with the 1st Battalion, but if the above were returned to duty I cannot ascertain where they were. None were KIA so were not with the main Battalion group, they are not listed with the remnants of the 1/24th WO 16/1573 January-March 1879.

Neither are they with the 2/24th WO 16/1579 October 1878-Mar 1879 but they do appear in the next pay-list of the 1/24th WO 16/1574 April-September 1879

Some were listed from the 1st April, the majority from 1st July, ALL with "from Mounted Infantry"

What, may I ask, have you found in WO 16/2490? I have looked at this (primarily for 24th Regt men only) and all I have is Pte Lambert 1/24th still there in 1881.

Perhaps I should look again at the 88th and 90th pay-lists (2nd Sqn) as again I only have photos of 24th men (and probably the 1/13th and 80th for the 1st Sqn as well). I'm planning to visit TNA next Saturday.

I look forward to your future Studies articles about the M.I. and hopefully pt 2 of Penn Symons.

Regards,

Bill
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptySun Oct 31, 2021 8:55 am

Bill
Sorry about the misunderstanding over Fitzgerald. I'll answer you using your personal e-mail. First though, I have to root out my notes to answer you for this amount of detail.
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptySun Oct 31, 2021 10:03 am

Thank you Julian,

Just to clarify any confusion about Fitzgerald and the 90th pay-list WO 16/2027 April-September 1878, 88/889 Pte William Fitzgerald was on page 90 just below the 1/24th men above, Brown, Crook, Holt, Mangan, Wallis, and Woodford. Scrivenor is on page 16

25B/806 Pte Edward Fitzgerald was in the group posted to Natal 10th Sept 1878 WO 16/1573
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Nov 01, 2021 7:49 am

You should have received my specific answers by now and, yes, the Symons part 2 and MI essays are still on the cards. Covid sort of stalled my creative juices for a time but I am starting to return to the straight and narrow!
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Nov 01, 2021 9:41 am

Cheers Julian,

Not yet received to my email, unless Bill Cainan is scratching his head again wondering why you are sending him information? 😄

Regards,

Bill Sherriff
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Julian Whybra




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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Nov 01, 2021 10:55 am

I've re-sent and updated the e-mail I tried to send you 2 hours ago. You should have information on all the men you queried bar one.
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Nov 01, 2021 12:23 pm

Thanks,
Received both. I will check through the notes when I have finished work today.

Much appreciated.

Bill
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Nov 01, 2021 3:40 pm

OK, ignore the first; use the updated second.
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Nov 01, 2021 4:57 pm

Hi Julian
Just in defence of Robert Hope (and I don't know the chap) but he does acknowledge your help and assistance at the beginning of the book in the page titled 'Acknowledgements.'
Interestingly he just refers to them as The Mounted Infantry rather than the Imperial Mounted Infantry.
Hope this helps.
Kate
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Nov 01, 2021 5:27 pm

Kate,

I have to say apart from the references in the Sonia Clarke book that you pointed out, and a reference in The Cape Argus that P.O. Tom give me, the expression ‘Imperial Mounted Infantry’ was not in common usage.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyMon Nov 01, 2021 6:03 pm

Kate
You are correct about the general acknowledgements section. That was not what was agreed viz. a citation to the work in which the research appeared, and a specific acknowledgment that that particular research had been undertaken by me.
Robert is a decent chap. He may well have been overwhelmed by the immensity of the task and simply unintentionally forgot. It did teach me a lesson which I've not repeated (much!)
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyTue Nov 02, 2021 3:50 pm

John/Kate
You are quite right about IMI not being in common usage at the time but I find that using it now helps to distinguish the two squadrons officially designated as IMI (beginning Sept 1878) from the various mounted infantry sections raised over the previous 3 years.
Where Clements's MI ends, Russell and Barrow's IMI begin.
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyWed Nov 10, 2021 9:16 pm

Strange that I've not received email notifications for the extra posts since my last entry. I come back to check a few details and find a glut of extra info relating to Pvt. Butler and the 2nd Imperial Mounted Infantry, all of it very interesting.

One part of the unit's history I've not been able to confirm is whether the 2nd IMI served at Ulundi. I find accounts of Mounted Infantry at the battle, but no indications as to which units these were.
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyWed Nov 10, 2021 10:12 pm

gcooper,

2nd Squadron Mounted Infantry did not fight at the Battle of Ulundi on 4th July 1879.  However, 1st Squadron Mounted Infantry were present.

As of the end of May 1879, 2nd Squadron Mounted Infantry were part of Major-General Henry Hope Crealock’s 1st Division which slowly advanced along the Indian Ocean coast of KwaZulu.

When Wolseley assumed command in the field he reorganised the Field Force, as of 26th July 1879 the 2nd Squadron were assigned to Clarke’s Column, when Barrow and his squadron came under the command of Lieutenant-Colonel Charles Mansfield Clarke, of the 57th (West Middlesex) Regiment.  Clarke’s Column did advance towards Ulundi, and were involved in the search for the fugitive King Cetshwayo kaMpande.

Somewhere in my files I have a list of 2nd/24th men who were involved in that operation taken from the Pay & Muster Roll of the Battalion.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyThu Nov 11, 2021 10:04 am

And among them were Davis, McCann, Parry and Power, who'd survived Isandhlwana: the only members of the 24th who fought at both battles.
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyThu Nov 11, 2021 12:19 pm

Julian,

In order not to confuse matters, the four soldiers mentioned in your last post were members of 1st Squadron Mounted Infantry, rather than the 2nd Squadron which we are discussing on this post.

JY
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyThu Nov 11, 2021 2:48 pm

Quite! They were at both Isandhlwana and Ulundi.
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyThu Nov 11, 2021 7:03 pm

Thank you John, that is really useful information. I shall spend some time looking into Pvt Butler's family background locally when I get the opportunity and I'll see if he has a gravestone anywhere - there is always a possibility that might mention something interesting. In a couple of weeks when I go for my Covid booster I'll be passing by the old Bell and Bear Inn that his family ran. It's unoccupied and something of a ruinous eyesore now, but I'll get a few pictures for posterity.
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90th

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PostSubject: Private Frederick Butler Mtd Inf    Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyFri Nov 12, 2021 2:38 pm

Hi Julian
In reference to your post regarding the soldiers who survived Isandlwana who were in the 1st Sqdn MI , John Power 499 1/24th certainly got around , saw action in 1878 , was present at Isandlwana , Hlobane and picked up the DCM there , Kambula and Ulundi , doesn't get much more colourful than that I imagine ? .
90th
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyFri Nov 12, 2021 2:47 pm

90th
Actually it does! He picked up the DCM for his actions at the Gobatse Heights 14.10.1878 (Norris Newman's book p. 91) as well as Hlobane.
He looks quite the sterling chap in his photo I always think.
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90th

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PostSubject: Private Frederick Butler Mtd Inf    Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyFri Nov 12, 2021 2:58 pm

Hi Julian
Actually where I read about Power I was unable to make sense of which action he was awarded the DCM , Gobatse Heights was mentioned . From memory is he a tall chap ? , I think I've seen a photo previously where he was in a group ? .
90th
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PostSubject: Private Frederick Butler Mtd Inf    Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyFri Nov 12, 2021 3:16 pm

Julian as you can see it's a tad messy the Power DCM .

1. There are references to Power winning his DCM at Hlobane on 28/3/79. The date and action shown
on the Submission to the Queen, however, is 29/3/79 Kambula. A similar confusion exists with the
Victoria Cross won by Lieutenant Edward Browne. Although gazetted for Hlobane, a case has been
made for his winning his award at Kambula
I did search up a pic of him , it was one I'd seen previously of him on his own .

90th .
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyFri Nov 12, 2021 4:02 pm

90th
you are quite right about the Kambula Submission - we had this discussion on this forum or the RD forum some time ago. It was eventually established that it actually referred to Hlobane and in fact described Power's actions in saving lives at the foot of Devil's Pass.
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PostSubject: Private Frederick Butler Mtd Inf    Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptySat Nov 13, 2021 12:20 am

Hi Julian
Yes in my original post I mentioned he picked up the DCM at Hlobane , he had an excellent tour of Zululand , do you know the year he was killed in his Horse fall ? . Wonder if he's Grave was ever posted on here ? .
90th
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptySat Nov 13, 2021 1:19 pm

90th
Power died in Kilkenny, Co. Kilkenny, Ireland c. April 1884 due to a fall from his horse when leaving Stephens Barracks, Kilkenny. Buried in St. John’s Priory Protestant Churchyard, Kilkenny.
There is a memorial in St. John’s Protestant Churchyard, Evans Lane Wall, John Street Lower, Kilkenny. The stone was erected by Officers & Comrades of the 24th Regiment. The Church & Churchyard are permanently chained shut. I'll send you a pic of the gravestone.

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PostSubject: Private Frederick Butler Mtd Inf    Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptySun Nov 14, 2021 1:26 am

Hi Julian
Thanks for the reply , and also a big Thanks for the Power Headstone pic you kindly send via Email Salute
90th Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptySun Nov 14, 2021 7:39 am

A pleasure to help.
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PostSubject: Re: Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry   Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry EmptyThu Nov 25, 2021 6:57 am

Hi All,
Frederick Butler married Mary Jane Smith 23 aug 1888 Holy Trinity Hope Staffs, 1871 he was living at Vale St Stoke on trent, Probably dies 1891 in Stoke on Trent.
Rai KLH
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