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 A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana

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Hobbes




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A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana   A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana EmptySun Feb 04, 2024 7:57 pm

Firstly, is there any information available as to whether Dabulamanzi was punished by Cetshwayo after the fiasco at Rorke's Drift? After all, he had been there against the king's orders, sacrificed 600+ of his men for absolutely nothing, and also caused a lot of carnage on the diplomatic side of things by breaking into Natal. I know that he commanded his force in several other battles later on, including Eshowe and Gingindlovu, but surely, such blatant defiance could not go unpunished, even by his own half-brother, right?
Secondly, is it possible to determine the number of natives who fought alongside the British, fled at Isandlwana, and survived? Every media I read or watched only states the number of British survivors. I get it; for those auxiliary troops, they might not have kept a precise count, but can one make an educated guess about their numbers? I myself calculated around 420-430, given the 1,300 casualties from the 1,800 strong force, and subtracting the 78 british survivors. The natal native troops apparently lost around 400 men. Most sources seem to agree on roughly 850 natives being present at the beginning, so the math largely adds up.
And finally, is it sure that the famous solar eclipse happened during the battle itself? Almost all sources specify 2:29 PM as the exact time of the event, but they disagree about the time the fighting actually seized. This video (https://youtu.be/ey0NZnld_P8?si=cxD8SveZbyHUk6kb&t=1184) states 2:00; Wikipedia however, says the final stage of the battle was going on at about 3:00 pm.
Thanks in advance lads!
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SRB1965

SRB1965


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A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana   A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana EmptySun Feb 04, 2024 9:51 pm

In one account a Zulu says they thought they had fought until evening, then it got lighter.

However the eclipse was only a partial one and did not do too much to affect the the light - it was not mentioned by any of the survivors nor by anyone at Rorke's Drift (who would have had less pressing matters on their mind than the sunlight) - AFAIK.

The eclipse obscured no more 65% of the light on the Eastern coastal strip of Zululand and began at 1pm and ended at 3.30 (its maximum affect was at 2pm - so near the end of the battle and during the flight of the survivors)

Unless looking at the sun, it may have been like a dark cloud had covered it (light level). One soldier out at Manengi says the land went still (perhaps the birds has gone quiet - as is often mentioned in eclipses)

Cheers

Simon

Ps - Julian has published a book called England's Sons which may have casualties (as near as possible) for the NNC - if he doesn't reply, I will look up some details 

Pps - I believe Cetchwayo was 'pissy' with Dabulmanzi but I don't believe he punished him too much apart from a tongue lashing but I will check. I think Dabulmanzi went to his territory and sulked..... 

Joker
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Hobbes




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A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana   A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana EmptyWed Feb 07, 2024 7:41 pm

Thanks! Also, regarding Isandlwana... Pulleine apparently sent multiple messages to Chelmsford, reporting the presence of a considerably strong Zulu impi, and they all reached him before the beginning of the battle. Chelmsford is even said to have turned back a company of the 24th who started to march towards the camp on their own initiative. This level of ignorance does not seem so believable to me, and considering that there are already some false pieces of information circulating about Chelmsford's actions, which portray him as an imbecile, arrogant leader, I would not be surprised if the story was not so simple. Did he even receive all of these reports, or did they land in the hands of his subordinates? Reports with such content cannot be ignored by even the worst commanders...
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SRB1965

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A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana   A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana EmptyThu Feb 08, 2024 5:47 am

A number of messages were sent to Lord C....but there is a bit of a debate if he got them....I believe at the time he claimed not or not all of them.

Lord C portion of the army was scattered across the area and no one seemed to know where he was.....

The RA commander (Harness) had turned his battery (4 guns) around ready to return to Isandlwana (on his own volition - to march to the sound of the guns) but was ordered to turn round again. 

I believe that Durnford sent one message, George Hamilton-Browne (watching the battle unfold) sent a number of messages, with increasing urgency - the GHB messages were not recieved (but to be fair - had they been, it would had probably been too late to get back)

Lord C sent his aide (Lt Milne RN) to a vantage point to look back at the camp (with his telescope) in response to Pulleine's 'can't come yet' note but could see nothing untoward. I believe Pulleine sent his note at 8.05, so would have got to Chelmsford about 10ish (?)
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90th

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A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: A few questions regarding RD & Isandlwana    A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 10, 2024 10:26 am

Hi Sime
H.H.Parr received the Pullleine Message at 9.30 gave it to Clery who handed it to LC , LC read it and gave it back to Clery without making a remark , Clery stated as there were no Orders issued was anything to be done on it ? , LC replied there was nothing to be done on it ! .
90th Salute
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90th

90th


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A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: A few questions regarding RD & Isandlwana    A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 10, 2024 10:33 am

Hi Sime
Do you have ' Studies In The Zulu War ' by Keith Smith ? , it has 3 pages on the Eclipse with Witness statements . The book is basically Impossible to find , and if you do it SHOULD be very expensive .
90th You need to study mo
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Bill8183




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A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana   A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 10, 2024 11:39 am

Or perhaps a better option is the updated 2nd Edition "Dead was everything" published by Frontline Books. Should be more accessible and a lot cheaper.
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90th

90th


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A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: A few questions regarding RD & Isandlwana    A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 10, 2024 11:44 am

Hi Bill8183
Yes spot on a much cheaper option ! .
90th Very Happy
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SRB1965

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A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana   A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 10, 2024 1:14 pm

Hi

I've got DWE by K Smith.

I've just looked at the eclipse paragraphs in the book and there are very few references to it, from the British forces on Zululand, which leads me to believe that the phenomenon didn't really affect the light levels to any real consequence.

Cheers

Sime
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90th

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A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: A few questions regarding RD & Isandlwana    A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana EmptySun Feb 11, 2024 3:08 am

Hi Sime
I've read over the years of others mentioning the Eclipse from Pietermaritzburg , Durban and other locations by Government Ministers and Officers etc . Yes it was only a partial eclipse spread over 90 mins or so at 60-65 % ? .
90th Salute
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Julian Whybra




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A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana   A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 11:00 am

The duration of the eclipse was 1.04-3.50 and was at its maximum 2.32 p.m., local time.
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Julian Whybra




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A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana   A few questions regarding Rorke's Drift and Isandlwana EmptyWed Feb 21, 2024 11:13 am

Hobbes
267 NNH were at Isandhlwana 30 kia
245 1/1 NNC 81 kia
238 1/3 NNC 82 kia
382 2/3 NNC 275 kia
10 NNPC 1 kia
2 NMP 1 kia
242 ACTD 2 kia
9 civilians 7 kia
total 1395 total 479 known kia
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