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Lieutenant John Chard: What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead: Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you.
 
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 Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment

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gardner1879

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptySun Jul 24, 2022 2:52 pm

Mounted infantry interest Julian?
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Glamorgan Advertiser - Friday 20 June 1930


Last edited by gardner1879 on Wed Aug 24, 2022 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Addition to title)
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Julian Whybra




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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptySun Jul 24, 2022 3:04 pm

Not in the ZW IMI squadrons.
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gardner1879

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptySun Jul 24, 2022 3:17 pm

I can't find a William Powell in the 58th medal rolls scratch
There is a private 29B/1776 J Powell 1879 clasp returned.
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Julian Whybra




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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Jul 25, 2022 10:15 am

No, definitely not MI.
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gardner1879

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyWed Jul 27, 2022 10:23 pm

Can't find a Jenkins in the 58th Foot.
However there is a W Jenkins 1509 in the 2/24th.(and two KIA at iSandlwana)
Assuming he used his real first name, Could this be him?But his account indicates he was with the 58th throughout and that he sees the 24th later scratch  
He seems convinced he was a 'rough rider in the mounted infantry' (his thoughts not mine)
Jack Williams VC? Denning?

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Julian Whybra




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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyThu Jul 28, 2022 8:56 am

Denning he's confused with Fielding of course.
But no Jenkins in the IMI from any regiment, I'm afraid.
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gardner1879

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 1:24 pm

This account of his seems to solve the mystery of when he was in the MI Julian but not wether he was actually there or not during the AZW scratch

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Julian Whybra




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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 2:28 pm

He does say that he was at the Relief of Eshowe and marched up to Ulundi so that pins him down.
And at last it is clear that he was MI in the First Boer War and at Majuba.
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John Young

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 4:03 pm

When did the 58th fight at the Relief of Eshowe?

JY
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Kenny




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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 5:21 pm

For those trying to piece William Powell's story together -

1/41st landed at Durban on 2 Apr 1881 from Gibraltar; so they were not involved in the first Boer War.
C Company (under Lt Penno) formed a MI company at PMB.  In Dec 1882, 3 companies C, E and G went in Zululand. Cetewayo had been restored to his kingdom but still had enemies - under Usibequ. Cetewayo took refuge with HM Resident remained there until 8 Feb 1884 when he died.
B, G and H companies (now 1st Bn Welsh Regt) crossed the Tugela on 29 Sep 1883, with C (mounted infantry) leading.  This force reach Eshowe on 29 Sep 1883.

According to the WelsH Regt history, soon after the death of Cetewayo, his followers, the Usutus under Dinuzulu, one of his sons, finding themselves no match for Usibepu, called in the Boers, with their assistance they inflicted a crushing defeat on Usibepu, who took refuge in the reserve.  As a reward for this service the Boers received a grant of land in which they established the 'New Republic'.

When this happened the British force in and near Eshowe consisted of 1/Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders, two companies of 1/Welsh, one squadron of 6th Dragoons, and two RA guns.  This force was strengthened by the arrival of 2/Northamptons and 5 companies of 2/South Lancs.  Between 3 Jul and 16 Sep 1884 various troop movements took place in Zululand in support of friendly chiefs - escort work and building forts etc. The 2 Welsh companies returned to Durban 3 Oct 1884.

The other 1/Welsh companies returned from Mauritius and the whole battalion sailed from Durban to Egypt on 9 May 1886.  

Always take what you read in the newspapers with 'a pinch of salt' as the old saying goes.


Last edited by Kenny on Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Julian Whybra




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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 5:22 pm

John
Well, yes John, IF he was in the 58th then obviously he couldn't have been at Eshowe but IF he's telling the truth then perhaps he was in another unit. I was merely pointing out from the article what he CLAIMED he'd done.
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Julian Whybra




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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 5:23 pm

Kenny
Sorry. We overlapped.
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Kenny




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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 5:58 pm

I forgot to add there was a Pte William Powell 25B/1713 who enlisted/transferred to 25th depot in 1878 and then came out with the 1.3.1879 draft to South Africa and was posted to 1/24th. He most likely would have been the camp outside of Ulundi in July 1879. He could have been a transfer from 41st and then returned after to 41st on his return to UK. His AZW medal is in the museum at Brecon - it was found and handed in. Bill Sherriff may be able to add to this.
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John Young

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 6:37 pm

Julian,

Sorry I thought you had a Eureka! moment when you declared:
He does say that he was at the Relief of Eshowe and marched up to Ulundi so that pins him down.
And at last it is clear that he was MI in the First Boer War and at Majuba.


Kenny,
1/41st!  Come on you should know better!  There was only one battalion of the 41st.

Am I missing something here?  The initial newspaper report has him joining the 41st in 1878.  In 1878 the 41st were at Aldershot, which might account for the Queen Victoria comment.

My question is did the 41st supply drafts to the 58th, then stationed at Dover, to augment their numbers in February 1879 for service in South Africa?

JY
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gardner1879

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 7:58 pm

"Since the Crimea the 41st have not been engaged in any warfare that calls for notice, having been engaged in peaceful duties in Jamaica, India, the Cape and Egypt" (the sobriquet of the 41st was for some time the "Invalids")

From my lovely two volume set of Her Majesty's Army.
I'm wondering if they would have written this if drafts had been sent to Natal for the AZW.

Dutton's has a Brevet Lieutenant Colonel A.H. Wavell and a private 2700 Kelly from the 41st entitled to the SAGS medal neither had a clasp.
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John Young

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 8:54 pm

Kate,

No, the drafts would have been volunteers from other regiments to bring the 58th up to strength.

I think there is an article in The Whitehall Review which might list where the drafts of volunteers came from. Some regimental histories also list the information, but I don’t have one for 58th or the Northamptonshire Regiment, as they became in the 1881 Reforms.

JY
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Julian Whybra




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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 10:13 pm

Curioser and curioser.
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gardner1879

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 10:17 pm

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Globe - Wednesday 12 February 1879

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Daily Review (Edinburgh) - Thursday 13 February 1879

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Aldershot Military Gazette - Saturday 11 January 1879
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gardner1879

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 10:24 pm

This could explain it John

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Shipping and Mercantile Gazette - Friday 14 February 1879

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Daily News (London) - Saturday 15 February 1879

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Manchester Evening News - Wednesday 19 February 1879

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Dublin Daily Express - Friday 21 February 1879

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Leicester Daily Mercury - Monday 03 March 1879

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Truth - Thursday 13 March 1879

Here we have a 41st man down at Eshowe
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Globe - Tuesday 08 April 1879
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Belfast News-Letter - Wednesday 16 April 1879


Last edited by gardner1879 on Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:44 pm; edited 8 times in total (Reason for editing : Addition of articles)
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Bill8183




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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 10:26 pm

25B/1713 William Powell enlisted November 1878 in the 25th Bde, I have nothing written down to say he came from elsewhere. The 41st Regt men who brought the 1/24th up to strength joined on the 25th February 1879. The pay-list for October 1878- March 1879 for the 41st shows them supplying a number of men in December 1878. Mostly to the 2/4th Regt and a number to the 99th.

I don't have all that much for the 41st previous to that pay-list, or the 58th Regt. Anything I have is purely to locate 24th Regt men.  I did see a William Jenkins enlisted March 1878 in the 41st but that's the only page I have and he just happened to be on it.

As usual the article appears to be a mixture of fact and fiction, I don't have the copies of either Regt to prove/disprove his statement.
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gardner1879

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 10:50 pm

Another 41st man  John Williams F Company 91st down on the coast
I have found J Williams 2066 in the 91st medal roles 1879 clasp
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Merthyr Express - Saturday 24 May 1879
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gardner1879

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 10:55 pm

Looks like there was a second draft went out in May

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Birmingham Mail - Tuesday 27 May 1879
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gardner1879

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Aug 22, 2022 11:01 pm

Seems like some also joined the 99th as this account shows by a private A Smith. Still n/t of any joining the 58th though.
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Bicester Advertiser - Friday 20 June 1879
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gardner1879

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyWed Aug 24, 2022 6:52 am

A letter from our elusive Powell. Suggesting once again he was with the coastal column

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Glamorgan Advertiser - Friday 30 August 1935
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gardner1879

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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment Empty
PostSubject: Re: Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment   Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment EmptyMon Sep 05, 2022 3:56 pm

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Glamorgan Gazette - Friday 29 March 1940

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Glamorgan Advertiser - Friday 29 March 1940
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Sergeant Major William Powell 41st Regiment 58th Regiment 91st Regiment
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