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 All things Zulu war

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Officer Ted

Officer Ted


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PostSubject: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 2:51 pm

Hello! I’m Ted! In this we will discuss ALL things Zulu War! Enjoy!
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Officer Ted

Officer Ted


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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 2:52 pm

Also how do you get a profile picture scratch scratch scratch scratch scratch
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gardner1879

gardner1879


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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 3:11 pm

Hi Ted
Welcome to the forum.
I have Pm'd you with the answer.
Kate
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gardner1879

gardner1879


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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptySun Sep 18, 2022 7:00 pm

Glad it worked Ted (I suprise myselfy sometimes Joker )
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Officer Ted

Officer Ted


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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptyMon Sep 19, 2022 5:34 pm

Who here thinks isandlwana could have been won if there was a stronger flow of ammunition Salute Salute Salute Salute
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gardner1879

gardner1879


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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptyMon Sep 19, 2022 7:23 pm

Hi Ted
The ammunition controversy has long been debated in AZW circles and first gripped the public imagination when Donald Morris published Washing of the Spears. In it he   picked out certain lines from survivors accounts such as Smith Dorrien, and along with a piece of bent ammunition box banding from iSandlwana which he had sitting on his desk , claimed was proof that desperate soldiers were unable to get into the boxes and tried breaking them open by removing the banding. This in turn led to an ammunition shortage and the loss of the battle. There have also been discussions about the locations of the ammunition wagons in the camp in relation to the firing line and the 'over zealous quartermaster' telling people to get their own wagons.

However after further extensive research this theory  has been proved to be incorrect. The ammuntion box could be broken open with the butt of a rifle, ring pulls from the boxes were found in the firing line during an aercheological dig in 2000 and there are numerous reports that the British were still firing when the line collapsed.
With 70 rounds per man they may have been running short near the end but there is a huge difference betwen running short and running out. If you look at the battle of Ulundi avaerage expenditure was 6.2 rounds per man. At Kambula it was 33 and even at the furious battle of Tamai in 1884 where the Dervishes attacked the British square only 50 rounds were fired per man.

There was an issue with Durnford on the right flank being unable to resupply his force as he couldn't find his wagons but in answer to your question I believe the ammunition supply was not the problem.
The Zulus outflanked and outfought us and had each man had 100 rounds it would have merely prolonged the agony and we would have still lost.
Hope that helps
Kate
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Officer Ted

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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptyMon Sep 19, 2022 7:47 pm

Thanks! Didn’t each soldier only carry 7 rounds because they were off-duty?SaluteSaluteSaluteSalute
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptyMon Sep 19, 2022 7:51 pm

No, the firing line was formed when the Zulus arrived. In fact Mostyn and Cavaye's company had been in action for a little while firing on the enveloping right horn who were moving across their frontage from the Nqutu plateau
The men were fully equipped and initially giving the Zulus a hard time before being out flanked.
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Officer Ted

Officer Ted


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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptyMon Sep 19, 2022 8:14 pm

Thanks!SaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSaluteSalute
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptyTue Sep 20, 2022 5:45 am

Morning Ted.
The companies would have carried around 70 rounds each, some suggest 90. I would agree with Kate that ammunition, or the lack of it, as not the primary reason for the defeat. It can't be ignored that the companies fought from the initial firing line the full distance across the camp to the south. That would have been impossible without ammunition. I've long held the belief that A and C companies retreating over the tent line would gave passed the 2/24th ammunition wagons and replenished. Again Charlie Pope managed to get a large proportion of his men from the rocky ridge area all the way back to the fit of the scree slope. The men that did get back to the saddle did have a number of potential sources, the Chelmsford re supply wagon was parked on the road ready for dispatch plus of course 1/24 wagons and the various Colonial supply wagons. Fugitives on the trail fought quite a successful retest that would have been impossible without ammunition, like wise the company that perished on the western slopes. Eventually both of these groups would have run out but very late in the battle.
Welcome to the forum
Cheers
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90th

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PostSubject: All things Zulu War    All things Zulu war EmptyTue Sep 20, 2022 2:43 pm

Hi Frank
I see we'll agree to disagree , I can't see Younghusband's Co moving along the tent line , they were far left of the firing line as you know , I believe when they were pushed back , or called back , they decided to take the high ground along the scree slope directly behind them , don't know why they would be semi advancing toward the zulu chest .... as they would've needed to do in moving along the Tent line , especially from their position they could clearly see what was happening , there are 8 or 9 cairns dotted along the scree slope leading toward where Co eventually finished up . I believe those Cairns mark the route of C Co along the scree slope . The company that perished on the Western slope was NNC with George Shepstone , I assume you don't have an Imperial Company getting culled there !? .
90th Salute
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptyTue Sep 20, 2022 3:01 pm

Hi Gary
Sorry didnt explain myself fully. I believe that C and A retreated between the tent lines and the hill, against the slope untill around the 2/24th camp and then up the inclined section. There was most definitly a company perished on the western slopes just of the saddle, theres a whole row of cairns to mark the spot. Theres also a certain amount of evidence that indicates a section descended lower down the slope towards the Manzimnyama.

Cheers
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90th

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PostSubject: All things zulu war    All things Zulu war EmptyTue Sep 20, 2022 3:27 pm

Hi Frank
As far as I'm aware all the Cairns on the Western Slope where Shepstone was were described as being NNC , can't remember anyone saying , or stating that there was a Company of Imperial troops there , those who constructed the Cairns to my knowledge on the Western slope have never mentioned Imperial troops being buried there ?? . Where did you find this ?? .
90th
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptyTue Sep 20, 2022 3:43 pm

Hi Gary
Sorry but I dont know how Shepstone came into the conversation. My points are directed at the western slopes stretching from the saddle as Ive said above.

Cheers
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: All things Zulu War    All things Zulu war EmptyTue Sep 20, 2022 4:16 pm

Hi Frank
Shepstone came into the Conversation because as far as I'm aware it was he , and his NNC that were killed on the Western Slopes.
you wrote .. like wise the company that perished on the western slopes .... do you mean Shepstone's Company or some other ?? .
It's confusing Dutchy ....
90th
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptyTue Sep 20, 2022 5:05 pm

Not confusing at all, if you look at what I've written. The western slopes from the saddle not the mountain slope. Walking over the saddle there is a row of at least 6 cairns below them are a further 3. I'm pretty sure they aren't Shepstone, last I saw he was pretty high up the side of the hill. .
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Officer Ted

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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptyTue Sep 20, 2022 5:27 pm

Also wasn’t the ammunition too far away?QuestionQuestionQuestionQuestionQuestionQuestionQuestion
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Officer Ted

Officer Ted


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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptyTue Sep 20, 2022 7:06 pm

Would you consider Rorke’s Drift a victory or a stalemate?
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: All things Zulu War    All things Zulu war EmptyWed Sep 21, 2022 1:32 am

Hi Frank
Sorry mate all you said was the Western Slopes , it was unclear where and what you were talking of scratch
90th Salute
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gardner1879

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PostSubject: Re: All things Zulu war   All things Zulu war EmptyWed Sep 21, 2022 8:23 am

Ted
The Zulus objective was to, kill the soldiers,plunder the supplies and sack the camp.
The garrisons job was to prevent them from doing so, which they did and the Zulus headed back across the river weary and hungry.
A British victory.
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