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Zulu Dawn:Col Crealock. “Excuse me, my Lord, there's something I must convey to you. I rode along the track down to Rorke's Drift. The sky above is red with fire. Your orders my Lord? Do we move to the drift?”
 
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 Durnford's Watch

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AuthorMessage
Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Posts : 2581
Join date : 2009-04-24

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyWed May 09, 2012 9:04 pm

But he left the ring and pocket knife. Latter having Durnfords initials on . Plus he had met Durnford before, and going by a description of Durnford. If you had seen him, you wouldn't forget him.
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MFletcher



Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-09-01

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PostSubject: Durnford's watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyThu May 10, 2012 7:15 am

Hello Springbok

Great uncle Godfrey signed in both his own name JG Thrupp and in his pen name JG Lefebre. All annotations are clearly legible. One note mentions "Lonsdale" as the source?? He has been quite meticulous in stating exactly what is fantasy and what is an actual eye-witness account or told to himn by another eye-witness. There is very little of the author's imagination and mostly factual information in these 40 odd pages. Uncle Godfrey is the same Dr Thrupp mentioned throughout "The Unknown Horn of Africa".

I will try to get you the actual quote about the watch- there seem to be some members trying to portray Godfrey as a grave robber! I assure you that he was a gentleman and an educated man who took pains to find the true owners. He had never met Durnford - I really do not know where these people are getting their information - they have no sources to quote and it seems wrong to defame the character of a dead man who cannot defend himself .
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7770
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 74
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyThu May 10, 2012 7:31 am

MFletcher

Hi there
I dont know if your last post was misdirected or not however I dont agree that he could be construed as robbing the dead.
I am in touch with Simon Luterbacher and will be liasing with him over the next few weeks.

Regards
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1999
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 24

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyThu May 10, 2012 7:49 am

Morris says he simply spotted the watch as the column was moving out entangled in a mess waist coat
and picked it up, he tried to find the owner through the news paper, and when thay failed he asked Frere who
told him to take to the Colonso, who recognized it at once.





Cheers
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impi

impi

Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 41

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyThu May 10, 2012 8:46 pm

Quote :
he asked Frere who told him to take to the Colonso, who recognized it at once.

Why on earth would he ask Frere, and why on earth would Frere say take iT to the Colenso's.
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1999
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Age : 24

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyFri May 11, 2012 7:08 am

because Frere new a lot of the officers that were killed......
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Chard1879

Chard1879

Posts : 1261
Join date : 2010-04-12

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyFri May 11, 2012 10:04 pm

Mehlokazulu Kasihayo.

Quote :
A: No. I saw Colonel Durnford returing from the Buffalo River. I didn't see who killed him, but when I returned, Some men from the iNgobamakhosi Regiment were taking some things and they called me over to look at the strange character on hi arm. I'll try to find out about the sabre and if I can obtain it, I'll return it.


Quote :
"Each Zulu took what he could carry, like watches and other things."

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impi

impi

Posts : 2308
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Age : 41

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptySat May 12, 2012 8:50 am

Good point Chard.!
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1999
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Age : 24

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptySat May 12, 2012 9:52 am

What was the point of posting that in this topic Question



Cheers
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impi

impi

Posts : 2308
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Age : 41

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptySat May 12, 2012 6:22 pm

Possibllities. Of what happen to the watch.
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1999
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Age : 24

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptySat May 12, 2012 6:46 pm

It was taken by Dr Thrupp and then given to Edward Durnford........
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impi

impi

Posts : 2308
Join date : 2010-07-02
Age : 41

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptySat May 12, 2012 7:38 pm

I thought he gave it to the Colenso's.
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old historian2

old historian2

Posts : 1095
Join date : 2009-01-14
Location : East London

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptySat May 12, 2012 8:17 pm

I thought the watch inquestion was lost in a fire. An accident when burning the plantations, which spread to the Fannies home. I sure this was in one of Colenso's letters. ( could be wrong)
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John

John

Posts : 2558
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Age : 58
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyMon May 14, 2012 9:13 pm

Norris-Newman writes account from one of the officers that visited Isandlwana on the day Durnfords body was found.

He say's a pocket Knife and rings were removed by Stepsone and sent to his familey.there was no mention of a watch. His body was wrapped in canvas and placed in a water wash (Whatever that is)
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1999
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Age : 24

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyMon May 14, 2012 9:15 pm

John his watch was taken on the morning of the 23rd of January by Dr Thrupp.



Cheers
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John

John

Posts : 2558
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Age : 58
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyMon May 14, 2012 9:21 pm

That's what puzzling me. Why did he just take the watch and not the rings and pocket knife. The rings would have been more visible than the watch.
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1999
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Age : 24

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyTue Jun 26, 2012 4:42 pm

Anyone know who bourght the book ??






Cheers
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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7077
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 52
Location : Down South.

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyTue Jun 26, 2012 10:45 pm

DB. Here's a bit more..It sold for £600. But no indication to who.

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"description
Battle of Issandlwana and aftermath 

(Durnford's Watch).- [Thrupp (James Godfrey, surgeon, member of the Royal College of Surgeons, author, served as civil surgeon with the 1-24th Regiment during the Zulu War in South Africa 1879, grandson of Joseph Thrupp, the coach builder of Grosvenor Square, 1849-1913), "J.G. Lefebre" & A. Egmont Hake. The New Dance of Death, first edition, 3 vol., J.G. Thrupp's copy with his original signed pencil annotations on the piece in vol. II concerning the battle of Issandlwana and its aftermath, ink inscription torn away from corner of each title, vol. I lower free endpaper corner torn away, some other small tears, browned, original decorated cloth, worn, vol. I covers detached, lacks spine, vol. III lower cover loose, vol. II & III spines working loose, 8vo, 1884.
 
*** A unique Zulu War item.
 
James Godfrey Thrupp was a surgeon at St. Thomas's Hospital in London and became for a short time, Civil Surgeon during the Zulu Wars in South Africa. Due to the illness of a colleague he was too late to attend the battle at Issandlwana but arrived shortly afterwards and was responsible for removing Colonel Durnford's pocket watch after the battle. Later, Thrupp under the pseudonym of J.G. Lefebre (his mother's maiden name) collaborated with Alfred Egmont Hake in writing The New Dance of Death, a novel, but with an account of the battle of Issandlwana (and Rorke's Drift) and Thrupp's recollection of the actual events as he saw them after the battle and with his notes identifying fictitious and accurate parts of the text.
 
(1). Page 28. Starting, "That march back from Matyana's stronghold was effected with extraordinary rapidity..." and Thrupp's note: "The following is an exact statement of what really happened, as witnessed by the Author himself JGT."
 
(2) Durnford's Watch. "...Beaumont walked on slowly until he was arrested by ['finding' substituted for 'recognising' by the author] the body of an officer who had held a high command. It lay head downwards, and was only partially stripped; a mess waistcoat, and the shirt beneath it, had been torn open, and hanging from a slender chain, fixed into a button-hole, was a small gold watch and bunch of charms. The expression of the face was peaceful, and the corpse apparently disfigured by only one long deep wound. Beaumont knelt down and removed the watch and
chain, then taking up one of the cold stiffened hands shook it warmly, murmuring: 'Good-bye, dear old friend, you've done your best, and died hard, I know. I feel I could almost gladly change places with you.' This man had been a brave soldier, a good example and kind friend to all the men under him. The watch had been stopped by blood trickling into the works, and the hands pointed to a quarter to three." - Thrupp. A New Dance of Death, 1884. "
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2452
Join date : 2011-09-12

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyFri May 05, 2017 1:34 pm

Guest
Just as a by the by, Durnford's daughter did not disappear from history. She married a descendant of one of Napoleon's generals, N. McIvor Rapp in 1883, lived quietly in Bexhill-on-Sea, Sussex, and died in 1919 without issue.
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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyTue May 09, 2017 1:10 pm

Bonjour,
A mystery solved ("Durnford's daughter did not disappear from history")!...
If it is Jean Rapp (i.E "Napoléon's Générals"), a famous soldier and General ...
Cheers
Frédéric
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http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2872
Join date : 2010-06-02

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyTue May 09, 2017 1:47 pm

This is Frances Durnford's marriage certificate. Note that they had to return to add two further first names to Rapp's entry making seven
in all! One of the witnesses was Edward Durnford.
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Steve
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2452
Join date : 2011-09-12

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyTue May 09, 2017 2:10 pm

Frederic
Yes, that's him, Nicholas's grandfather.
Rusteze
It's six forenames in total - one new one plus one in the wrong place.
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rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2872
Join date : 2010-06-02

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyTue May 09, 2017 2:35 pm

A touch of the Diane Abbotts!

Steve
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Julian Whybra



Posts : 2452
Join date : 2011-09-12

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyTue May 09, 2017 2:40 pm

A nasty thing to come down with.
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ymob

ymob

Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-22
Location : France

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford's Watch   Durnford's Watch - Page 2 EmptyTue May 09, 2017 2:46 pm

Mr Whybra and Steve, thanks for the information about Frances Durnford.
The name of Rapp (d.1821) is inscribed on one of the pillars of the Arc de Triomphe de l'Elysée at Paris.
(The wife of Jean Rapp died in 1879).

Cheers

Frédéric
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http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
 
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