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Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
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 Durnford sent troops out for ammunition

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littlehand

littlehand

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Durnford sent troops out for ammunition Empty
PostSubject: Durnford sent troops out for ammunition   Durnford sent troops out for ammunition EmptyFri Jun 26, 2009 6:57 pm

It said Pulliene, pulled the troops into the camp in front of the hill, and formed a line, but the line was to extend.

He had asked Pope who was commanding the 24th to close the gap between himself and Durnford would was fighting a losing battle.

Durnford sent troops out for ammunition supplies but they returned empty handed because the quartermaster refused to give it to them. Durnford left his position leaving a gateway for the Zulu. Is this true? I thought the ammunition supplies was a myth and they were getting ammo.
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90th

90th

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Durnford sent troops out for ammunition Empty
PostSubject: durnfords ammo   Durnford sent troops out for ammunition EmptyFri Jun 26, 2009 9:50 pm

hi littlehand.
this from IAN KNIGHT, COMPANION TO THE ZULU WAR.

" The situation among the Auxillary units is less clear cut, One man from the N.N.C, "MALINDI", observed that " our ammunition failed once but we got fresh from the camp , and remained firing until the zulu were within 100 yds. After protracted firing from both detachments of his men , however , DURNFORDS command undoubtedly grew short of ammo. Although he sent men back to gain fresh supplies they were hampered by the fact that DURNFORD had left isandlwana while his baggage train was still on the road from R.DFIFT. While they arrived at the camp, in the confusion of the battle none of his men knew where they were parked. Shortage of ammo may well have been a factor whch prompted DURNFORD to abandon his defence of the forward donga, arguably more pressing, however, was the fact that his position had become untenable as the zulus were outflanking it on both sides.

with regard to " G" Co, commanded by CHARLIE POPE, it was sent to help COL DURNFORD, but he was forced to withdraw before they got into position, therefore being unmounted they were quickly cut off and overwhelmed, most likely even before DURNFORD had got back to the camp.
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: durnfords retreat   Durnford sent troops out for ammunition EmptyFri Jun 26, 2009 9:54 pm

hi littlehand .

forgot to add , once durnford withdrew, and popes co was overwhelmed, there was nothing to stop the left horn, so basically the door was left open and the zulus would have steamrolled in, so to speak.

cheers 90th
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford sent troops out for ammunition   Durnford sent troops out for ammunition EmptySat Jun 27, 2009 4:59 am

Thanks 90th.

So am I correct is saying if, Pulleine had formed the defence line earlier, the gap could have been closed while Durnford still had ammunition.
Come to think of it, would Durnford have been aware that Pulleine had formed a defence line?
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Saul David 1879



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PostSubject: Re: Durnford sent troops out for ammunition   Durnford sent troops out for ammunition EmptySat Jun 27, 2009 6:58 am

The problem encounter by Durnford was that his position had become unsustainable his unit was speedily running short of ammo.
Durnford sent back for supplies but his men could not locate their own ammunition, and they were refused ammunition by the infantry quartermasters. Durnford was endangering of being outflanked. He gave order to retreat to the camp.

Pulleine was unprepared for Durnfords actions, as this left Pope uncovered and over-extended. To add to this is said that the NNC, to the right threw down their weapons and retreated to the rear.

The only option left open to Pulleine was to retreat to the tents, and form a defensive position in front of the hill. This was the start of the being of the end. The gate was open.

S.D
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: pulleine 's defensive line   Durnford sent troops out for ammunition EmptySat Jun 27, 2009 8:20 am

hi littlehand.

By defensive line being formed earlier, do you mean when the troops tried to fall back on the camp proper ?. if so , i dont think it would have helped, the battle would have lasted longer, the result would still be the same. the biggest mistake in my opinion was the distance the firing line was from the camp area, somewhere in the region of 800 yds !!!, a long way to go for ammo supplies , plus another point that is not widely known, there were plenty of people in the camp doing mundane chores or basically lounging around, i think when pulleine noticed what was happening it was to late to even rally these men, as some of these would have been the first to try and flee, and who could blame them !!.

cheers 90th.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford sent troops out for ammunition   Durnford sent troops out for ammunition EmptySat Jun 27, 2009 11:45 am

90th Correct the line was to far extend. With the progress of the Zulu’s left horn Pope’s men were located right of Warden, and the NCC located between them and Durnford.
In-fact the whole defensive line extended from Durnfords on the right to Younghusband on the left.
The defensive line was too extensive for the infantry rifleman to cover successfully.
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24th

24th

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford sent troops out for ammunition   Durnford sent troops out for ammunition EmptySat Jun 27, 2009 2:49 pm

Hi littlehand.

The major risk to the British line was the Zulu horns, which raced to locate the ending of the British flank and overwhelm it.
To the right the 24th and the NNI were unable to prevent this envelopment. The Zulus were able to break into the British lines and the irregulars, under Durnford.

It has been said many times that the most important predicament for the British was the requirement of fresh supply ammunition. This does not seemed to have been a problem for the men of the 24th.

Durnford’s men on the right flank had expended most if not all of their ammunition and were forced to ride back into the camp, leaving the British flank open.

Zulu chiefs commanded the Zulu warriors of the chest that had stopped by the 24th’s fire, to make good their attack. This caused the British troops to fall back on to the military camp.
One of the Zulu regiments hurried between the retreating British centre and the camp and the horns broke in on the flank The British line swiftly broke.
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old historian2

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PostSubject: Re: Durnford sent troops out for ammunition   Durnford sent troops out for ammunition EmptySat Jun 27, 2009 4:52 pm

S.D
Quote :
To add to this is said that the NNC, to the right threw down their weapons and retreated to the rear

Does this me they deserted. I can understand retreating to the rear. But why did they throw down the weapons.
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