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Subject: Re: capt gardner. Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:28 pm
I wonder if the sword comes with it, has its in the painting.
Dave.
1879graves
Posts : 3045 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
Subject: Re: capt gardner. Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:47 pm
Gardner, Lieutenant Colonel Alan, MP, JP
Born November 19, 1846; is son of Alan Legge, Lord Gardner, was in the 11th and 14th Hussars, and passed Staff College (1872). He served in the Zulu Campaign in 1879, being present at the battles of Isandhlwana, Zlobane Mountain (horse killed), and Kambula, where he was severely wounded. He was twice mentioned in despatches and received the medal with clasp and promotion to a brevet majority. In 1880 he was ADC to the Viceroy of Ireland. He served in the Boer War of 1881, and contested E Marylebone as Liberal candidate in 1895, and in 1906 was elected for the Ross Division of Herefordshire. Colonel Gardner has shot big game in nearly every quarter, accompanied by Mrs Gardner. He married, in 1885, Nora Beatrice, eldest daughter of Sir James Blyth, Bart., of Blythswood, Stansted, and 33, Portland Place, W.
90th
Posts : 10129 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 64 Location : Melbourne, Australia
Subject: capt gardner. Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:07 am
hi all. I have been informed by a well known historian that the man in the picture is clearly wearing the uniform of the 11th Hussars , and seems to him to have the 2nd Boer war medals up , neither of which as far as he is aware were appropriate to our man " Gardner ". I zoomed in and couldnt even make out the " zulu war medal ". And the historian says he has seen this painting before. Interesting to get your thoughts on this. cheers 90th.
garywilson1
Posts : 374 Join date : 2009-01-22 Age : 58 Location : Timisoara , Romania
Subject: Re: capt gardner. Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:02 am
As with your other post about Russell i think sellers like to try to establish a link with the AZW because i am sure the prices are higher - nice picture though !
Frank Allewell
Posts : 7578 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 73 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Subject: Re: capt gardner. Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:21 am
11th Hussars
As this is my old regiment I have sent the link to the chairman of the old comrades and asked him to try and identify through the regimental records. The photo is very very familiar and I do seem to recall it from the mess. Interseting.
Frank Allewell
Posts : 7578 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 73 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Subject: Re: capt gardner. Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:59 pm
11th Hussars Reply as recived from the regiment. Captain Gardner did not serve in the Boer War or the second boer war. In fact he transfered to the 14th Hussars so his medals would be named to the 14th and on their rolls. He served in Ireland as ADC to the Lord Lieut. He retired in Oct 1881 as a hon lt col and died in Spain in 1907 aged 61. He was one of those officers who hardly served with the regiment, detached to all sorts of regiments. He served at Isandlawana, Kambula where he was wounded and at Hlobane.
Draw from that what you will chaps. If that is indeed the Gardner we think in the photo then he shouldnt be wearing his medals on the dress uniform of an ex regiment.
1879graves
Posts : 3045 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
Subject: Re: capt gardner. Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:23 pm
Hi Springbok9
If the painting is incorrect, how about the below photograph? What uniform is he wearing, 11th or 14th Hussars? Can you date it by the uniform as he was in the 14th Hussars in the Zulu War? or is it before 1879? [center] [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
1879graves
Posts : 3045 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
Subject: Re: capt gardner. Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:43 am
The Seller has posted a close-up of the medals as I requested.
Posts : 10129 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 64 Location : Melbourne, Australia
Subject: capt gardner. Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:17 am
hi 1879graves. As in my previous post , thanks to your close - up, it certainly seems this individual is wearing the " QUEENS SOUTH AFRICA MEDAL " (2nd Boer War )which Gardner isnt entitled to wear. Also there is no " ZULU WAR MEDAL " on his breast. Certainly very strange . cheers 90th.
Frank Allewell
Posts : 7578 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 73 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Subject: Re: capt gardner. Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:43 pm
11th Hussars Feedback from the regiment is, the photo is 14th Hussars ( cross belt ) the portrait is 10th Hussars (cross belt and plume). From the rather poor quality photo passed it apears that the one medal is DSO and at the other end KSA.So there is a good chance its not Gardner. He served in 5 different regiments the 10th not being one of them and it apears the SAM 1879 was the only medal he received. Thats the semi official line. Im in possesion of a turn of the century dress uniform. I must say the cherry picker trousers with yellow stripe look very 11th, so does the side flap on the busby. But there are other differences. However as he is wearing the uniform it would put the date post 1871 so the medals should not be there. After 1871 he would not be entitled to wear the uniform in particular with decorations earned with another regiment. Draw your own conclusions chaps.
Regards
Frank Allewell
Posts : 7578 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 73 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Subject: Re: capt gardner. Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:25 pm
the photo is confirmed by Ian Knights book on Isandlawana as Gardner and the uniform is 14th HUSSARS
1879graves
Posts : 3045 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon
Subject: Re: capt gardner. Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:21 pm
Hi Springbok9 & 90th
Many thanks for your responses.
Springbok9 Going off topic for a moment, would Gardner's jacket in the photograph be scarlet like the one below?
Posts : 7578 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 73 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Subject: Re: capt gardner. Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:41 pm
The 10th, Queens Royal Hussars, had a cherry red tunic with a large amount of braid to the cuffs and lower arms as per the photo. The 11th had a dak blue tunic with double scroll to the cuffs and a simplified breast work. Solid serge heavy and very very hot. I got married in ceremonial, in South African summer. Perfect way to lose a lot of weight quickly. Regards
Frank Allewell
Posts : 7578 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 73 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Subject: Re: capt gardner. Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:45 am
Sorry that should of course read 14th Hussars not 10th. Interesting point now is that all three regiments are amalganated under the Royal Hussars banner. The regimental records are however a mess. I have asked if it is possible to make a search of the officers awarded that particular combination of medals, if it can be done a finite identitiy can be established.
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