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Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
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 If the British had won at Isandlwana

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Dave

Dave

Posts : 1605
Join date : 2009-09-21

If the British had won at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: If the British had won at Isandlwana   If the British had won at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 05, 2010 9:42 pm

If the British at won the day at Isandlwana, I take it that would have been the end of the Zulu War of 1879. Would Cetewayo have surrendered? There would have been no need for a second invasion and Chelmsford could have moved straight toward the Royal Kraal.

The battle of Isandlwana would have certainly depleted the Zulu army. Or do members think otherwise.

Dave
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90th

90th

Posts : 10136
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If the British had won at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: if british won Isandlwana.   If the British had won at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 05, 2010 9:55 pm

hi dave ,
Not sure it would have been the end of the war , but it most likely would have been much
shorter , Doubt if the king would have surrendered as he never did in the first place . Losses
never deterred the zulu , they no doubt would have massed and had another crack at the
british forces somewhere on the road to the Royal Kraal.
cheers 90th.
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John

John

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If the British had won at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: If the British had won at Isandlwana   If the British had won at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 05, 2010 10:13 pm

I couldn’t hazard a guess on how many Zulus would have been killed at Isandlwana , but quite a few would have been on their toes out of there. Don’t forget Cetewayo still had another 20,000 warrior at his disposal and the ones that were spread around the country causing problems for the British. Doe’s anyone know roughly how many British troops and allies, in total took part in the first invasion.
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If the British had won at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: If the British had won at Isandlwana   If the British had won at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 05, 2010 10:32 pm

If the full Centre Column been in attendance at Isandlwana when the Zulu army attacked, the consequential increase in manpower and the rate of fire could in all probability have stayed a absolute rout at least and flattened the lesser-equipped Zulu force at most.
I expect Chelmsford would have recalled or regrouped with the rest of the forces that were pressing inwards into Zululand.

E.H
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ADMIN

ADMIN

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If the British had won at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: If the British had won at Isandlwana   If the British had won at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 05, 2010 11:26 pm

John Say's
Quote :
Doe’s anyone know roughly how many British troops and allies, in total took part in the first invasion.


Rough Estimate.

The Right Column comprised of 4,750 Men.

The Centre Column, containing 4,709 Men,

The Left Column, with 2,278 Men.

Total 11,737
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90th

90th

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If the British had won at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: if british won Isandlwana.   If the British had won at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 05, 2010 11:50 pm

hi pete.
Not sure about your numbers for the 1st invasion , as there were 5 colums initialy .
1ST - PEARSON
2ND - DURNFORD
3RD - GLYNN
4TH - WOOD
5TH - ROWLAND.
Also it pays to remember that more than half those in the 3rd column were NNC ( black troops ). :) .
cheers 90th.
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24th

24th

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Join date : 2009-03-25

If the British had won at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: If the British had won at Isandlwana   If the British had won at Isandlwana EmptyFri Feb 05, 2010 11:59 pm

I found these figures

"Lord Chelmsford had under him a force of 5,000 British and 8,200 Africans; 3,000 of the latter were employed in guarding the frontier of Natal; another force of 1,400 British and 400 Africans were stationed in the Utrecht district."
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90th

90th

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If the British had won at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: if british won Isandlwana.   If the British had won at Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 06, 2010 12:18 am

hi all.
These are the official strengths of each column , taken out of " NARRATIVE OF THE FIELD OPERATIONS
CONNECTED WITH THE ZULU WAR OF 1879. written and prepared by the Intelligence Dept.

1 COLUMN - 4,750 OFFICERS AND MEN.
2 COLUMN- 3,871 OFFICERS AND MEN
3 COLUMN - 4709 " " "
4 COLUMN - 2,278 " " "
5 COLUMN - 1,565 " " "

Plus some other additions , The Grand Total of men in the 1st invasion amounts to.
17, 929. The total of those in the imperial infantry is only 5,128 .
cheers 90th.
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Dave

Dave

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If the British had won at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: If the British had won at Isandlwana   If the British had won at Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 06, 2010 12:28 am

Extract>

"The right hand column, comprised of 4,750 men, was to cross the Tulega River at Lower Drift and head for Eshowe. The centre column, containing 4,709 men, was to cross at Rorke's Drift and make straight for Cetshwayo's Royal Kraal at Ulundi. The left hand column, with 2,278 men, crossed the Blood River at a point further north and was to head for Ulundi also. Two columns were held in reserve. Chelmsford considered the centre column to be the main thrust and located his headquarters there. Based upon his experience during the defeat of the Xhosa in the Eastern Cape, Chelmsford had little regard for the fighting qualities of the indigenous peoples. Everything was in place for his first encounter with the main Zulu impi at Isandlwana on 22 January 1879."

References used for these pages:
1. Morris, D. R., The Washing of the Spears: A History of the Rise of the Zulu Nation under Shaka and Its Fall in the Zulu War of 1879, NY: Da Capo Press, 1998.
2. Smythe, G. and Whittall, J. St.C.,The Zulu War 1879, Sloane Park, RSA: Rainbird Publishers, 1996.
3. Knight, I., The Sun Turned Black: Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift - 1879, Rivonia, RSA: William Waterman Publications, 1996.
4. Knight, I., Rorke's Drift 1879, 'Pinned like rats in a hole,' Oxford: Osprey Publishing, 1996.
5. John Young, Anglo-Zulu War Research Society
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littlehand

littlehand

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If the British had won at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: If the British had won at Isandlwana   If the British had won at Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 06, 2010 1:04 am

So how many took part in the 2nd invasion. But we are still taking 40,000 Zulu's +
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Dave

Dave

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If the British had won at Isandlwana Empty
PostSubject: Re: If the British had won at Isandlwana   If the British had won at Isandlwana EmptySat Feb 06, 2010 10:55 am

“For his renewed offensive Chelmsford's overall strength was increased to 25,000.However, the very size of the force overwhelmed the supply and transport capacity of Natal and Chelmsford would have to utilize a number of troops that could be sustained in the field. In the event, for his main column, he fielded 2 cavalry regiments, 5 batteries of artillery and 12 infantry battalions, amounting to 1,000 regular cavalry, 9,000 regular infantry and a further 7,000 men with 24 guns, including the first ever British Army Gatling battery. The lumbering supply train consisted of 600 wagons, 8,000 oxen and 1,000 mules. The structure of the force was reorganised; Colonel Evelyn Wood’s No. 4 column became the flying column, Colonel Charles Pearson was relieved of command by Major General Henry Crealock and his No.1 column became the 1st Division and Major General Newdigate was given command of the new 2nd Division, accompanied by Lord Chelmsford himself.”

Dave.
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