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Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
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 Unusual Martini Henry Marking.

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Dave

Dave

Posts : 1605
Join date : 2009-09-21

Unusual Martini Henry Marking. Empty
PostSubject: Unusual Martini Henry Marking.   Unusual Martini Henry Marking. EmptySat Mar 20, 2010 11:55 am

I was at an antique shop the other day where there was a Martini Henry not for sale unfortunally. There was an unusual marking, which I have never see before. It was a circle on top of a tripod. The owner didn't know, but would like to know. So doe's anyone knows what this indicates.

I was thinking maybe it was issued to someone in a signalling division.
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joe

joe

Posts : 600
Join date : 2010-01-07
Location : UK

Unusual Martini Henry Marking. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unusual Martini Henry Marking.   Unusual Martini Henry Marking. EmptySat Mar 20, 2010 3:54 pm

hi dave
i couldnt find exactly what you said but i did find a marking that had a tripod with a circle with a line down the middle (like a circle in 2 halfs together)
this means that the rifle is unfit for front line duty

hope this helps - if you could make any sense of it ! :lol!:

shame it wasnt for sale!

heres a link to a marking site - it also includes the marking i tried to explain

hope this helps

thanks joe
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joe

joe

Posts : 600
Join date : 2010-01-07
Location : UK

Unusual Martini Henry Marking. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unusual Martini Henry Marking.   Unusual Martini Henry Marking. EmptySat Mar 20, 2010 3:56 pm

sorry forgot to add the link!
:lol:

here it is...
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thanks joe
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John

John

Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 58
Location : UK

Unusual Martini Henry Marking. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unusual Martini Henry Marking.   Unusual Martini Henry Marking. EmptySat Mar 20, 2010 8:08 pm

Dave. I think this is Neils site. Scroll down to the bottom of the page. Its the only marking I can find that looks like a tripod with a circle on top.

The marking means: Weapon condemned (often found with DP mark also)

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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

Unusual Martini Henry Marking. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unusual Martini Henry Marking.   Unusual Martini Henry Marking. EmptyMon Mar 22, 2010 9:41 am

It will be the "Condemned" mark, it was often used in conjuction with two other markings.

D.P for "Drill purpose", and "not for ball", Rifles of this type have usually a sawcut across the knoxform to de-activate the gun.

Condemned was not solely for this, it might be that the that the breech had poor headspace, there may be a crack in the receiver or bulge in the barrel, effectively anything that would take the rifle beyond reasonable repair.
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http://www.martinihenry.org
Dave

Dave

Posts : 1605
Join date : 2009-09-21

Unusual Martini Henry Marking. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unusual Martini Henry Marking.   Unusual Martini Henry Marking. EmptyMon Mar 22, 2010 4:16 pm

Thanks Neil. I will let him know. Idea
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

Unusual Martini Henry Marking. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unusual Martini Henry Marking.   Unusual Martini Henry Marking. EmptyMon Mar 22, 2010 5:07 pm

Its the markings on Martinis which give them so much history. These are the common to Military issue rifles.
Other regularily found marks are
Barrel/ Receiver
* : Rust in barrel
** :(more) rust in barrel
>s< : Sale or disposal mark (usally found on South African, Aus/NZ and Canadain issue)
BR : Birmingham Repair (Bagot Street RSARF)
MT : Morris .232" sub calibre aiming tube
2: Denoting second classing
B.E : work mark Denoting Blehiem Engineering (mainly to .303 M-H & M-M,but also found on .450 M-H_

Receiver
2 : As above
BR : As above
S.X : Pattern 1885 strengthened extractor fitted



Arsenal Marks, usually to Stock, bit someties reciever
KK: Kirkee
RP: Rawul Pinda
AL: Allahabad
CT: Cape Town
Vic Gov : Victoria Province Australia
M & D: Canada Militia and defence
DC or DC in diamond : Canada Diminion
F: Firozpur
I ^ M : India post 1900

Trigger Guard, Lever or Barrel bands
E - M Enfield Martini part re-cycled
A or AE Tool makers part or pattern part

There is also Manufacturing codes
E : Enfield
X : LSA or London Small Arms (London)
B : BSA & M Co Birmingham Small Arms and metals Co
B : BA & A Birmingham Arms and ammunition Co (Bir)
H : Henry Rifled Barrel Co (London)
Crossed Flags Brendalin Armoury Co (London)
N: NAA Co National Arms and ammunition Co (Birm)











[
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John

John

Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
Age : 58
Location : UK

Unusual Martini Henry Marking. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unusual Martini Henry Marking.   Unusual Martini Henry Marking. EmptyMon Sep 12, 2011 1:49 pm

Various Markings Some look Chinese,

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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

Unusual Martini Henry Marking. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unusual Martini Henry Marking.   Unusual Martini Henry Marking. EmptyMon Sep 12, 2011 3:17 pm

John

Intersting if anyone can tell which is original, which is not.

The first item is 100% incorrect, the IC1 has been engraved on top of another rifle, you can see the ghost crown underneath, The IC1 has no serriff, it should be stamped. So its a knock of re-use of an old receiver.

Item 2 is the left hand receiver of a converted Martini Henry Mk3 rifle to a rebarrelled .303 Martini Enfield Artillery Carbine.

Item 3 whilst looking "dodgy" is actually not, is the cypher of a Henry Rifled Barrel company Mk2 rifle (I know 'cos that image is off a rifle I used to own!) HRB made 30,000 .450 calibre rifles and carbines between 1892-1894 for the Indian Government, but were heavily involved in conversion of military pieces into .303 Metford carbines. They added the last number of the date separately post production. HRB Co operated from 1871 and held patent to the Henry Rifling system, which they tried (unsucessfully) to sue the Government, along Frederick Martini in 1871 for losss of royalties on the patent. Possibly why they failed to secure governmental contracts in the 1874-1890 period. The company were operated at Bow, London, later they became amalgamated with Blenhiem Engineering, being wound up circa 1905.

HRB took on contract barrelling work post 1890, and its not un-ususal to see Enfield Barrels with later "H" proofs where the works had been done. Enfield ceased production of martini's in 1888, works on service rifles after that time went to the RSARF at Bagot St Birmingham, then Sparkbrook Montgomery St works.
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