WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Fix Bayonets and died like British Soldiers do.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Imperial Mounted Infantry 2nd squadron
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyToday at 6:21 pm by John Young

» ISANDLWANA AND A FOUR LETTER WORD
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyToday at 3:51 pm by gardner1879

» Another diorama "Rorke's Drift 1879"
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyYesterday at 11:49 am by Wolfgang Meyer

» Rorke's Drift Diorama - 1:72 Scale
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyThu Jan 13, 2022 2:06 pm by ArendH

» Invasion 1879
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyThu Jan 13, 2022 1:28 pm by Julian Whybra

» Gunner Luckman 4747 5th Bde RA
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyMon Jan 10, 2022 4:48 pm by Julian Whybra

» New Zulu War Book
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyMon Jan 10, 2022 4:22 pm by Julian Whybra

» Captain R. F. Willoughby, Royal Scots Fusiliers, circa 1885
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyMon Jan 10, 2022 3:04 pm by ADMIN

» Private James Chick
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptySun Jan 09, 2022 10:07 pm by Bill8183

» Laagering of Wagons at iSandlwana and Laager Commandants
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptySat Jan 08, 2022 7:52 pm by Frank Allewell

» Virtual Battlefield Tour of iSandlwana
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptySat Jan 08, 2022 3:36 pm by John Young

» The battlefield revisited. An interesting report
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptySun Jan 02, 2022 9:13 am by Frank Allewell

» eggsa site Grave Memorials
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyThu Dec 30, 2021 8:47 am by aussie inkosi

» Temperance Societies in the Zulu War
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptySun Dec 26, 2021 2:18 pm by ADMIN

» New You Tube Video
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyWed Dec 22, 2021 6:34 pm by gardner1879

» Guess where?
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyMon Dec 20, 2021 5:19 pm by Julian Whybra

» Did Captain Shepstone do it?
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptySun Dec 19, 2021 3:27 pm by Julian Whybra

» 1527 Pte. B Hall 2/24th Regt. KIA
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptySun Dec 12, 2021 1:01 pm by Kenny

»  Harry Figg's Grave
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptySun Dec 05, 2021 9:35 pm by ADMIN

» Unknown Uniform Zuluwar Era - Pietermaritzburg. Plz help!
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptySun Dec 05, 2021 9:23 am by gardner1879

» Zulu War Sailor in 1952 (Harry Figg)
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptySat Dec 04, 2021 6:51 pm by 1879graves

» Isandlwana Casualties - BRODERICK
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyThu Dec 02, 2021 11:40 pm by Tim Needham

» James Hamer map of iSandlwana
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyWed Dec 01, 2021 9:52 pm by Julian Whybra

» William Shutt (reg no. 469)
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyThu Nov 25, 2021 8:06 pm by Mark25

» Private Frederick Butler Mounted Infantry
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyThu Nov 25, 2021 6:57 am by rai

» (H. Pilley. Cooks Mte. H.M.S. “Active”.)
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyThu Nov 25, 2021 6:13 am by rai

» John Patrick Seeler
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyThu Nov 25, 2021 5:41 am by rai

» What if Dartnell had returned?
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyWed Nov 24, 2021 1:46 pm by Julian Whybra

» Isandlwana solving the enigma
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyWed Nov 24, 2021 9:10 am by Drummer Boy 14

» William Stewart HAMILTON 90th Regiment of Foot (Perthsire Volunteers) Light Infantry
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyThu Nov 18, 2021 5:10 pm by gardner1879

» William Brighton
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyThu Nov 18, 2021 4:04 pm by Julian Whybra

» Unknown Patients at Rorke's Drift
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyTue Nov 16, 2021 11:35 am by Julian Whybra

» Private John Lloyd, 1/24th Foot
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyTue Nov 16, 2021 4:27 am by 90th

» Hidden Ground at Isandlwana
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyMon Nov 15, 2021 8:53 pm by aussie inkosi

» I own a Zulu War Period (Replica) 24th Rgmt of Foot Tunic
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyMon Nov 15, 2021 1:21 pm by Lieutenant William D'arcy

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Battle of Rorke's Drift | History | Zulu Wars |
Top posters
90th
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
littlehand
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
ADMIN
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
1879graves
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
rusteze
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
John
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
gardner1879
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
Wolfgang Meyer
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
John Young
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
ArendH
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
Bill8183
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
90th
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
ADMIN
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
rai
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_leftA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause BarA new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Bar_right 
Most active topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable.1
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.5
Durnford was he capable. 4
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Adding to the Library
The ammunition question
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
Isandlwana smith zulu carbineers james payne 24th Mounted taylor henry williams Prince spalding Franklin George Police Natal melvill Woolfryes horse Durnford Russell martini drift john harford
 

 A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause

Go down 
4 posters
AuthorMessage
Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw


Posts : 553
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Empty
PostSubject: A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause   A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyMon Oct 06, 2014 10:09 pm

Hi guys, not been on for a while as I've been moving house and all the things that go with that. Always one for a balanced historically correct perspective heres one.... and quite big, a meeting held on Wednesday the 22nd September 1885, present was H T Arbuthnot of the RSAF Enfield, Barlow, Superintendent at Woolwich and Abel, Government Chemist. the proceeds of which have never been alluded to, but the ramification is huge this in the words of Arbuthnot “It was very soon after I went to Enfield (promoted Superintendent April 1880: NA) that you made a change with the lacquer I think?”, Abel had replied. “yes, there was a change made in them and it was because we found that the lacquer came out of the case and glued the case into the chamber” interesting indeed.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7077
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 53
Location : Down South.

A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Empty
PostSubject: Re: A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause   A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyMon Oct 06, 2014 10:40 pm

Neil interesting. This relates to the same problem, albeit not MH ammuntion!

"Potential Problems with Wolf AmmunitionEdit

"Lacquer coating
Wolf no longer manufactures ammunition with a lacquer coating on the cartridge casing due to issues concerning lacquer-coated steel cartridges becoming stuck in the chamber of a firearm after firing, with difficulty in ejecting the spent cartridge afterwards. This appears to be more of a problem with cartridges with narrowly tapering walls (e.g. .223 Remington) than those with rather steep case walls such as 7.62x39 mm cartridges or pistol ammunition. This also does not seem to pose much of a problem for Soviet or East Bloc designed weapons that tend to have looser chamber clearances than Western designed weapons.

Tests have shown that steel-cased Wolf cases do not obturate sufficiently to form a good gas seal against the chamber [2] when compared to brass-cased ammunition. As a result, when Wolf cartridges are fired, some of the combustion by-products are deposited between the case and the chamber, causing a buildup of carbon that is well in excess of normal. Firing a brass case (that does expand fully) after using Wolf ammunition without cleaning the gun first can result in the brass case being "glued" into the chamber by the carbon buildup. This issue has nothing to do with the lacquer coating vaporising or melting, as has mistakenly been suggested. The problem is one of carbon deposition, which creates the same end result (i.e.; a stuck cartridge that has jammed in the chamber). It is important to emphasise that Wolf ammunition is perfectly safe to use because it conforms to all SAAMI standards. However, it is recommended that firearms are thoroughly cleaned after using Wolf ammunition due to the increased rate of carbon build-up within the chamber. As mentioned in the previous paragraph, the looser chamber dimensions of Soviet-designed weapons allow for more room during firing and extraction. Soviet or East Bloc weapons do not experience these problems."

Back to top Go down
barry

barry


Posts : 947
Join date : 2011-10-21
Location : Algoa Bay

A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Empty
PostSubject: The Martini Henry   A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyTue Oct 07, 2014 7:04 am

Hi Neil,
Good to hear from you.
Indeed, the writings of many of the survivors of the African wars will tel you explicitly about the jamming of the Martini Henri. What was worse however was that sometimes the extraction process pulled the rim off the case and made the rifle inoperable until a gunsmith could either ream out the used brass, or sometimes pull it out. This made the weapon useless in the interim.
Added to this, but part of it was the overheating of the breach under sustained rapid fire conditions. This was addressed later by a mod which involved a leather handguard fitted over the breach area. Altho the MH was cutting edge technology of the time in the BA, it certainly had some problems.

regards

barry
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw


Posts : 553
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Empty
PostSubject: Re: A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause   A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyTue Oct 07, 2014 10:14 am

Hi Barry
Regarding the base rims, there is very little evidence, apart from in the early days of the MkI cartridge of the extractor tearing off the baseplate and my have I looked! and in the 100's of testimonies I have read, only Gambier Parry in his book "Suakin", and Colour Sgt John Drew of the RMLI are the only two definitive primary sources . Gambier Parry eluded regularly to his early days as musketry inspector at Hythe and is not specific as to the date. Captain EMS Crabbe of the Grenadier Guards, who wrote in 1878 about jammed cartridges, never saw it, he was asked at the official enquiry in 1885. Crabbe had been inspector of Musketry for four years!, he'd seen jamming, but not base delamination, and one can only imagine how many rounds he'd seen fired, also..as to the state of his hearing!

Whilst I'm getting to the bottom of the Jamming issues (9000 words now) for my book, it is actually primary source quotes etc (not general soldiers hearsay) that I am after for the case for and against.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
90th

90th


Posts : 10406
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 65
Location : Melbourne, Australia

A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Empty
PostSubject: A New Slant on Jamming Cartridges and its cause    A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyTue Oct 07, 2014 10:18 am

Hi Neil
Glad to have you back , what exactly does your book entail ? . I'm sure it's been mentioned but can you give me a refresher please . You need to study mo
Cheers 90th
Back to top Go down
Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw


Posts : 553
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Empty
PostSubject: Re: A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause   A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyTue Oct 07, 2014 10:25 am

90th, Its going to be called The Martini Henry "A Mighty Fine Rifle" (Hooks words..not mine). A full historical on the military Martini, the men and factories who made it, how it was made, the ammo, the jamming, the bayonets and the supposed bending scandal and lots of previously un published info, all from official government archive.
Back to top Go down
http://www.martinihenry.org
littlehand

littlehand


Posts : 7077
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 53
Location : Down South.

A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Empty
PostSubject: Re: A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause   A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyTue Oct 07, 2014 11:32 am

Neil didn't Hook say "We were using Martini's, and fine rifles they were too."
Back to top Go down
90th

90th


Posts : 10406
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 65
Location : Melbourne, Australia

A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause Empty
PostSubject: A new slant on jamming cartridges and its cause    A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause EmptyTue Oct 07, 2014 11:46 pm

Hi Neil
Thanks for the reply much appreciated , hard to beat Government Archival reports / evidence , I'll be looking to get a copy , signed of course ! Very Happy Salute
Cheers 90th agree
Back to top Go down
 
A new slant on Jamming cartridges and its cause
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: