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Lord Chelmsford Said .Buller is ‘one of the finest soldiers of the century’, so modest and reticent –that it was difficult to say for what individual deed he had got the Victoria Cross as he had been doing acts worthy of it all along the line
 
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Rorke's Drift A Soldier's Story with presenter Major John Thomas
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 2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift

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the lunger



Posts : 10
Join date : 2010-06-22
Age : 34
Location : Illinois

2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift Empty
PostSubject: 2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift   2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift EmptyThu Jul 08, 2010 7:04 am

I remember reading that as a zulu regt. was raised the outfitting of clothing was outsourced to villages who had the time and material more readily at hand. Each regt. was rather uniformed in that respect.
1.What is the color of the wood for the various zulu weapons? Did they vary or was it more of a universal type?
2. The thrusting spear(iklwa) or the Knokberry, were any of these weapons more prevelent at Rorkes Drift?
3. Some of my figures have a necklace that I cannot seem to find out what it is exactly. It has a large ball hanging from the necklace. Do you know what it is and/or the coloring?

4. What skin color were the Zulus? Were they a mix of browns or more like black as night? Shocked
5. Were the Zulus of an older age, mixed? any info would be helpful.

6. The "Rorkes Drift" painting by Keith Rocco. Is that an accurate painting of the Storehouse in detail, compound dirt color? mainly the building for I see it is red stone and white stone and am curious on the color of the thatch roofing. I was informed that the sandbags were light brown so this is why iam questioning the accuracy of the painting.
7. The grass was knee high but of what color?
8. The storehouse and hospital were of stone. Would there have been like a clay around the buildings or were the stones clearly visible?.
9. The melee bag wall. Did it consist entirely of melee bags or were there ammo boxes and other materials used such as wagon weels or anything at hand.

Some of these questions and my questions in general may not be answerable.
As soon as I progress a noteable amount I will be sure to include you all with my progress. Please if you notice anything wrong for future pics or anything in general please speak up? The pictures I have up now are a rough draft and am working out some of the kinks so as to be able to recreate this battle as historically accurate as possible.



Thank you all.

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joe

joe

Posts : 600
Join date : 2010-01-07
Location : UK

2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift   2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift EmptyThu Jul 08, 2010 7:15 am

Hi Gunga Din,
You certainley are paying attention to gistorical detail. Idea

The grass was knee high and a lush green colour as, I think, Neil Aspinshaw said in another discussion.

As for the age of the zulu, I think it was one of the older regiments which attacked the drift. (anyone correct me if Im wrong)

I would presume the zulu had a range of light and dark skin tone.

All I can answer here, I think Neil Aspinshaw ( a member here) may be able to help in relatoin to the weapons).

thanks

Joe



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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7507
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift   2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift EmptyThu Jul 08, 2010 10:15 am

Gunga Din

Lets try for some answers
1 The spears and clubs were made from local hard woods, after a time in the hands of a warrior they would be fairly dark and polished.
2. Throwing spears, stabbing spears and clubs would all have been ysed at RD
3. Necklaces were made from hide and could have been used to carry a round seed containing snuff.
4. The Nguni race are a very black race of people, skin tones dark and velvety.
5. The regiments involved at RD were uThulwana, iNdlondlo, uDloko and iNdluyengwe. A mixed bag in terms of ibuthu ages.
6. Cant comment on the painting. However the stone was locally quarried, ranging from a light gray to a red almost sandstone. If it was mud plastered it would be a dirty light brown/beige. Bear in mind that sandbags etc were all carried on ox waggons from Durban, spending a long time on the road and exposed to the elements. Whilst originally whitish they would certainly have degraded and adopted the local reddish sand colours.
7. Look at the photos published over the last few weeks, that will give you an idea of color. Green with a tinge of yellow.
8. I think they were built of baked mud bricks and then smeared with mud as a binder. So colour would be a fairly light dirty beige/sand/brown.
9. The mealie bag wall would undoubtably had other elements incorporated.
For coloring in general look at the paintings done by Lady Butler and Alphone de nevill. Lady Butlers in particular would be, I think, pretty close to accurate. She did have some key players pose for her and give advice. Think as well that these soldiers, equiptment etc had been in the field for some time. Whites were not white anymore, skins were tanned and hairy. Hair when cut was cut with a bayonet, so definitly not a short back and sides.

The surroundings were subject to the rainy season so whilst not lush as an English country side they were green. When its not raining in Zulu land its pretty hot, the ground drys quickly so dust is a constant factor and covers everything. The thatch is composed of reeds from the river, dark brown to yellow when fresh cut but going grey after a while, and the grey to a layer of dust and that would be your color.

Just to get gorry, bloody is only bright red untill its dried, thens its blackish brown.

I hope that helps and look forward to seeing the progress of the diorama.

Regards
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Umbiki

Umbiki

Posts : 131
Join date : 2010-07-04
Location : Gloucester, UK

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PostSubject: Re: 2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift   2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift EmptyThu Jul 08, 2010 4:25 pm

Hi Gunga Din

My first post on this Forum so, "Hi" to everyone in fact!

In truth, my primary interest is in the history of the Zulu and of the colony of (kwaZulu)Natal as a whole, but of course our "Small Victorian War in 1879" is part of that history and impacted on both. However, I do enjoy painting miniature figures etc. from the AZW period which is why I thought I would pitch in on this thread and add my thoughts as regards your point about the colour of mealie bags.

My own experience is that I have done one model figure (24th Colour Sergeant) standing on such bags. At the time, and rather than doing any proper research, I chose instead to blindly follow the painting guide that accompanied the figure. This suggested the bags were light grey in colour but I have often wondered since if this was altogether correct. Indeed, my doubts have been raised again more recently by the release of the W Britain's AZW figures/accessories where the bags are finished in sand/light brown. My own view is that given a bit of dirt and dust I suspect the true colour lies somewhere between the two (and this is the excuse I use if someone points at my Colour Sergeant and asks, " you sure those bags are the right colour? Rolling Eyes ! ). To be fair, the Rocco painting does seem to bear my theory out (if one allows for the highlights/shading too) so if I were to do the same model again, and in the absence of a more definitive reference, I would probably go with that and use a combination of washes and "weathering" to get the desired shades. Clearly some bags would be cleaner/dirtier (blood stained?) than others so a bit of artistic licence is available too!

Just one final thought. I do not know what scale your diorama is - and this might be tricky if 15mm or 28mm scales - but an extra point of detail is the central red and blue stripes on the mealie bags (which are clearly visible in both Rocco's and Lady Butler's work).

I hope this is helpful and wish you well with your project.

Umbiki




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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7086
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 51
Location : Down South.

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PostSubject: Re: 2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift   2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift EmptyThu Jul 08, 2010 8:14 pm

Umbiki: Click on link scroll down until you come to the Zulu War era.

http://historia.mforos.com/725450/6794844-el-ocaso-del-ejercito-zulu/
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Umbiki

Umbiki

Posts : 131
Join date : 2010-07-04
Location : Gloucester, UK

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PostSubject: Re: 2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift   2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift EmptyThu Jul 08, 2010 11:48 pm

Littlehand

Nice one - bookmarked! - thanks. Osprey presumably?

U
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the lunger



Posts : 10
Join date : 2010-06-22
Age : 34
Location : Illinois

2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift   2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift EmptyFri Jul 09, 2010 1:28 am

Umbiki wrote:
Hi Gunga Din

My first post on this Forum so, "Hi" to everyone in fact!

In truth, my primary interest is in the history of the Zulu and of the colony of (kwaZulu)Natal as a whole, but of course our "Small Victorian War in 1879" is part of that history and impacted on both. However, I do enjoy painting miniature figures etc. from the AZW period which is why I thought I would pitch in on this thread and add my thoughts as regards your point about the colour of mealie bags.

My own experience is that I have done one model figure (24th Colour Sergeant) standing on such bags. At the time, and rather than doing any proper research, I chose instead to blindly follow the painting guide that accompanied the figure. This suggested the bags were light grey in colour but I have often wondered since if this was altogether correct. Indeed, my doubts have been raised again more recently by the release of the W Britain's AZW figures/accessories where the bags are finished in sand/light brown. My own view is that given a bit of dirt and dust I suspect the true colour lies somewhere between the two (and this is the excuse I use if someone points at my Colour Sergeant and asks, " you sure those bags are the right colour? Rolling Eyes ! ). To be fair, the Rocco painting does seem to bear my theory out (if one allows for the highlights/shading too) so if I were to do the same model again, and in the absence of a more definitive reference, I would probably go with that and use a combination of washes and "weathering" to get the desired shades. Clearly some bags would be cleaner/dirtier (blood stained?) than others so a bit of artistic licence is available too!

Just one final thought. I do not know what scale your diorama is - and this might be tricky if 15mm or 28mm scales - but an extra point of detail is the central red and blue stripes on the mealie bags (which are clearly visible in both Rocco's and Lady Butler's work).

I hope this is helpful and wish you well with your project.

Umbiki

Hello,

The fading of the melee bags and uniforms is a necessity. i have seen those stripes before and will include them.
Iam using 15mm. I can put a good amount of detail in the figures and also get the en masse appeal that iam looking for.
If I were to do Isandlwana. I would be more inclined to do 10mm.

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Umbiki

Umbiki

Posts : 131
Join date : 2010-07-04
Location : Gloucester, UK

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PostSubject: Re: 2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift   2nd set of questions pertaining to Rorkes Drift EmptyFri Jul 09, 2010 11:53 am

Hi Gunga Din

I fear my ageing eyes put the smaller scales beyond my capability these days but I do look forward to seeing your results. Keep up the good work!

U
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