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 Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns.

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John

John

Posts : 2558
Join date : 2009-04-06
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Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. Empty
PostSubject: Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns.   Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. EmptyMon Nov 15, 2010 11:21 pm

Neil was your opinion on this PLEASE!!!. It seems to me the Rifle was converted to .22 (Which was not used in the Zulu War) Or am I wrong... scratch


Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns

"A firearms enthusiast who bought an antique rifle he believed was used in the Zulu War was yesterday handed a suspended prison sentence for not having a firearms certificate.

David Wearing's Martini .22 rifle was discovered at his Bristol home when he was visited by a police officer after ordering a stun gun from America.

The 39-year-old, of Broadlands Drive, Lawrence Weston, did not have a firearms certificate to keep the rifle, which had been bought as a collector's item.

Wearing pleaded guilty to one charge of possessing a firearm without a certificate and one charge of purchasing a prohibited weapon, relating to the purchase of the stun gun.

He was handed an eight-month prison sentence, suspended for 12 months, ordered to carry out 150 hours of unpaid work in the community and pay £1,000 towards prosecution costs.

James Ward, prosecuting at Bristol Crown Court, said Wearing was arrested after he went on eBay and bought a stun gun for $24 for "a bit of fun".

"He said he looked on stunguns.com and ordered a stun gun," Mr Ward told the court. "Having ordered it, he said he considered it maybe a problem importing something of that nature into the country.

"He said he thought it was just a gadget with a torch. It has a torch on it."

Mr Ward added Wearing's illegal package arrived from America on May 11 and was opened by customs officers before being delivered to his home by Parcelforce.

Inside was the stun gun with an LED torch on it and a two-pronged charger.

Mr Ward said the defendant was visited by a police officer on June 4 and accepted he had the stun gun.

When he was asked if he had any other weapons he said he had an air rifle and admitted he didn't have a certificate for it.

Mr Ward said: "He made it clear to the officer he was collecting the rifle. It was an old gun. He said it was over 100 years old and was used, or a gun of that nature, a Martini .22, was used in the Zulu War.

"The Crown suggest the defendant had that weapon as a collector's item and not for evil intent."
James Cranfield, defending, called for any jail term to be suspended.

Sentencing Wearing, Recorder Mr Andrew Maitland said: "You appear to have a remarkably casual approach to firearms and stun guns.

"The rest of society does not, that's why they have to be licensed.

"Possessing a rifle has a maximum of five years if you don't have a licence.

"As far as purchasing a prohibited weapon is concerned, you claim it was out of curiosity. It is a dangerous oddity.

"You don't pay much attention to the law."

The rifle was ordered to be forfeited to the police and the stun gun forfeited and destroyed."
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Chard1879

Chard1879

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Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns.   Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. EmptyTue Nov 16, 2010 12:06 am

The fact he purchased a Stun Gun would give rise for concern. We don’t know the background of this individual with reference to criminal History. So he probably could not be trusted to keep a firearm even a collector’s piece.

"He said he thought it was just a gadget with a torch. It has a torch on it." Rolling Eyes

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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

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Location : Loughborough

Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns.   Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. EmptyTue Nov 16, 2010 9:07 am

.22 like .303 will never be obsolete, and, he is breaking th law, wether or not he intended too, he should have declared where he purchased it, as they would be breaking the law too.

It is quite clear: Even if you have a firearm certificate, unless you have the authority to own or aqquire that SPECIFIC calibre you are are breaking the law if you own or aqquire it, so is the vendor, as he would need to check the buyer has the authority to aqquire, once he has, he then would need to inform the police of it's disposal, and to whom. (that was if he actually had authority to have it in the first place)

I think the mere fact he had the stun-gun would have created a complication, it would make matters far worse if he held ammunition too.

Fortunately most of the service rifles used in the AZW are classified obsolete, i.e the calibre is listed on the "Home office Guidance to police officers" where those now classed under section 58 are Antiques. Here is an extraction

Antiques
Section 58(2) of the 1968 Act exempts from the provisions of the Act - including certificate controls under sections 1 and 2 and prohibition under section 5 - all antique firearms which are sold, transferred, purchased, acquired or possessed as curiosities or ornaments. The word "antique" is not defined in the Act but Home Office guidance on the subject can be summarised briefly as follows:

If modern ready made ammunition can be bought and fired using the weapon it cannot be classed as an antique; A muzzle loading firearm is antique; A breech loading firearm using a rim-fire cartridge exceeding .23 (but not 9mm) is antique; A breech loading firearm using an ignition system other than rim-fire or centre is antique; A breech loading centre fire firearm originally chambered for cartridges which are now obsolete and retains that original chambering is antique.

Google the home office page and you will be able to download the pdf, along with the list

So, a .577 Snider, a 450/577 Martini and a .45 Westley richards monkey tail is Obsolete.... a modern .577 Perdersoli P53 muzzle loader is not, why? because its new and it is made as a gun. .45 1879 revolver is not antique as it chambers modern ammunition, but a .45 Colt Muzzle loader of 1867 is.

If you own an "Antique", off the list there is really no problem, but make sure you do not own ammunition to fire in it, as that is not due reason, the worse case is you find that the Martini Carbine you have is .303 and it has not been deactivated, what do you do? the police would rather have it that you take it down to the police station, declare it. They will not arrest you on the spot. Our Chairman in the Diehard Company, is a firearm officer for the Sussex Police and we often chat about what gets handed in, one was a mint MP40 found in suitcase from Arnhem, thats another story, they will take it off you, maybe check it has not been used in a crime, but will advise on what you could have done with it, if you want rid, then fine, they'll take it, more likely if its a really nice piece, they advise on having it deactivated and you can keep it.
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http://www.martinihenry.org
joe

joe

Posts : 600
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Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns.   Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. EmptyTue Nov 16, 2010 6:59 pm

Hi Neil, does that mean you cant fire an 'antique' gun such as a MH without a liscense even if you make you own ammunition?
sorry, cant get my head around it all :lol!:

Joe
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John

John

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PostSubject: Re: Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns.   Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. EmptyTue Nov 16, 2010 9:45 pm

You can own a Martini Henry with its original calibre, but if converted it would no longer be classed as collector’s items.
.22 Ammunition can easily be obtained unlike .450 cal.

As Neil say’s

“If you own an "Antique", off the list there is really no problem, but make sure you do not own ammunition to fire in it, as that is not due reason”
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joe

joe

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Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns.   Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. EmptyWed Nov 17, 2010 7:25 am

Thanks John
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

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Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns.   Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. EmptyWed Nov 17, 2010 8:30 am

Joe,

The moment a Martini Henry becomes a gun: I.e you fire it, either blank or live then it is a firearm and is treated in law as such. If you convert it to say, .22 then it is no longer an obsolete calibre. Now, and this is where the plot thickens, the Martini Henry had a training device called a "Morris Tube", this was a small bore tube which was inserted into the barrel and was a cadet target training aid, firing a .297/ 2.32" bottle shaped cartridge, like a Miniature MH round, Strictly sepaking, this is also obsolete. Often Carbines are seen with "M.T" on the receiver denoting its conversion, the ownership of a Morris tube is also an antique item.....but, If the tube is in a .303 Martini, then the plot deepens because a .303" Martini with a morris tube in it is fireable, as the de-cativation of such means the tube could not be fitted in the first place (barrel grooved and pinned).

The fact you own reloading equipment in itself is not a crime, unless you own primers (which now have to be aqquired on FAC), Black powder, which ownership of is a crime, unless you have a police aqquire and keep certificate (which allows you to buy it and own it), plus a RCA document from the Health and Safety executive to transport it. You can buy black powder substitutes, (which are propellants...not explosives) without the full rigmerole, however most dealers worth thier salt now will ask to see your FAC before they'll sell it to you.
If you own a Martini and want to get it shooting, then a) you have to get a FAC, with the .450/577 calibre on it. If you already had the rifle, b) then you simply revert it from antique status and put in on FAC. Do bare in mind if you want more than one you have to have that quant of calibre on FAC, I have six Martini's on mine.

If you shoot it, then decide you don't like it, then you write to your licence authority, tell them you have reverted to antique status, and it goes "off-ticket", you get rid of the ammo, and it can be hung on the wall.

confused .com?
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joe

joe

Posts : 600
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Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns.   Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. EmptyWed Nov 17, 2010 3:41 pm

Thanks for explaining it again Neil, think Ive got it now Idea Idea

Joe
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns.   Bristol firearms fanatic escapes jail term for owning guns. EmptyWed Nov 17, 2010 5:12 pm

The Langalibalele Affair.

The initially insignificant Langalibalele affair had striking results. It had become the practice for the diamond diggers to pay black workers with guns to attract them to work at the newly opened diamond mines. In Natal, no law had been passed forbidding blacks to own guns, but they had to register them. They soon learned that registration was an excuse to confiscate guns. Many young men of Chief Langalibalele's amaHlubi had accumulated a small arsenal in the chiefdom. Langalibalele's troubles began in 1873, when some amaHlubi were ordered to bring in certain guns for registration and they were not returned. When Langalibalele complained, he was ordered to hand in all the amaHlubi guns.


Sir Theophilus Shepstone
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