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 Zulu war medal - clasp 1879

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tasker224
CF71
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CF71




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PostSubject: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Jan 18, 2011 3:30 pm

inscription is J.HEAZLE,CORPL.R.M.H.M.S."BOADICEA"
I'm assuming that marines are entitled to the clasp where RN personnel on shore were not?

I have seen mention of an official roll that I can check for authenticity - could someone point me towards it?

The medal is in my mother's pssession and belonged to my grandmother before her - I'm not sure of this gentleman's connection to my family, but i have started to look into that.
I would also like to find out what part he played in the campaign and whether he was involved in any of actions.
Wiki tells me that Boadicea's crew are believed to have been involved in the battle of Gingindhlovu and the relief of Eshowe, but doesn't go into any more detail.
If anyone could point me towards any resources where details of his career might be found, I'd be very grateful - Would it be correct to say that at that time marines were considered part of the army and would have regimental records somewhere rather than admiralty/ship records?

The medal does not have a ribbon attached, so i would also like to take your collective advice on whether it is worth getting some ribbon from ebay to replace it, and also the approximate value of the medal. I can post pictures of the medal if people are interested, but it would be in a few days (i'd have to go to my mother's and take them - she isn't that comfortable with technical things.)
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Jan 18, 2011 5:10 pm

CF71,

Welcome to the forum Idea

John Heazle was a 22 year old Corporal in the Royal Marine Light Infantry. During the Zulu War he was a member of the HMS Boadicea naval brigade that served ashore. At the battle of Gingindlovu the marines, and one company of sailors, defended the left front corner of the square.

Afterwards, the Boadicea's naval brigade accompanied General Crealock's column on its march along the coast to Port Durnford. When the naval brigades were released to return to their ships, the brigade from HMS Boadicea was the last to depart.

I checked the medal roll and Corporal Heazle is listed as entitled to the medal with clasp "1879".

I would love to see photos of the medal.

Petty Officer Tom

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Jan 18, 2011 5:29 pm

CF71,

I left off two items.

All military personnel who served in the Zulu War and who crossed into Zululand were entitled to the clasp, whether they be Army, Navy, Marines or Colonial troops

The Marines were part of the Navy, not the Army. You can look for his record at the National Archives (KEW). The file will start with ADM. I tried to find the exact file number on line, but I could not find a file for any marine with the name Heazle. Good luck on you search!

Petty Officer Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Jan 18, 2011 5:53 pm

CF71,

The 1881 Census contains the following information on Heazle:

Name: John Heazle
Age: 24
Place of Birth: Canada
Sergeant, RMLI
HMS Boadicea
Unmarried

Petty Officer Tom
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tasker224

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Jan 18, 2011 7:34 pm

i have tried several combinations of heazal and heasle, but can't find him on the national archive records. if he had died in service from illness, his reords may not have been kept. ( i think i am correct in that).
tasker
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Jan 18, 2011 7:41 pm

Thanks very much indeed for the information PO Tom
Here are a couple of photos - They don't really do it justice as I think it's in very good nick, but my mother's camera wan't taking good shots
(hopefully the links work)

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


The Canada connection is very surprising (not least because my wife is canadian) and it makes me wonder if there is any connection to my family at all, since I'm not aware of any branch of the family out there.
It could be an imperial posting or something of that nature though
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Jan 18, 2011 8:16 pm

CF71,

The pictures are good. If you can photograph his name and ship's name located on the edges of the medal that would be great. I'd like to see how they listed him.

As far as his Canadian birth, his father could have been posted there at the time Heazle was born.

If you happen to run across a photograh of Corporal Heazle that would be great.

In 1881 HMS Boadicea provided a naval brigade for the 1st Boer War. I did not see his name among the killed or wounded, but he may have been involved in that campaign also.

In the meantime I will continue to look for additional information on him.

Petty Officer Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Jan 18, 2011 8:42 pm

PO Tom, I tried to take pictures of the edge inscription, but they came out much too blurry and indistinct.
The listing is as written in the 1st post, except the L of CPRL is smaller and raised

running across a photo of him would be highly unlikely - this is the first i've heard of him and my mother has no idea who he might be - she guesses he might be a great or great great uncle, but it's just a guess.
TRacing my own family would be a lot simpler if 90% of the stuff i search for didn't want me to pay ancestry.com or someone to see the records


He seems to be discharged from the marines in 1883 according to this document
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=-5590338&CATLN=7&Highlight=%2CJOHN%2CHEAZLE&accessmethod=0

ADM 157/612/6
Folios 6-13. John Heazle, born Quebec.
Attestation papers to serve in the Royal Marines at Portsmouth 1877 (when aged 21).
Discharged 1883 as Paid £15.
Previously served 21st Hussars.

The 1881 census places him still on the Boadicea, But I'm not sure of the exact date of the census in relation to the Boer war

would the combatants in any particular action in the boer war be listed in dipatches or in the ships log ? - he was a sergeant by then which might mean he'd be more prominent in the records ?- or would the regimental record be the only place - he doesn't seem to have a regimental history in the Royal Marines Register of Service
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Jan 18, 2011 9:09 pm

I'm assuming the medal is the genuine article and not a copy - is there any surefire way to check this?

this document
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

seems to show that he was on a ship called the thalia when the medal was delivered to him in 1882 - by the look of it, the thalia was delivering a new bunch of crew to the boudicea and taking the old crew back to portsmouth

the 1861 canadian census shows him as one of 8 or 9 children, father was an innkeeper in quebec (quebec city?) if i can decipher the handwriting.(i can't read the place of birth for mother or father) There's no indication that Heazle was married, so I'm not really seeing any connection to my mother's family at all
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyWed Jan 19, 2011 7:05 pm

I have found a baptism record for John Heazle - the name is mis-spelled as Heagle in the online version - He was born in Quebec City on the 24th November 1856 and baptised in the anglican cathedral on 7th december. His father was indeed Tavern Keeper Thomas Heazle, mother was Ann (Nee Nickelson)


Last edited by CF71 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyWed Jan 19, 2011 7:07 pm

Nice work CF71. All we need now if a photo of him.
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyWed Jan 19, 2011 10:50 pm

Admin wrote:
Nice work CF71. All we need now if a photo of him.
not quite all - I still would like to find out how he is connected to my grandmother, whether or not he participated in the 1st boer war, and what happened to him after his discharge from the royal marines - there is a recorded death of a john heazle in melbourne in 1885, but no real way of telling if it is him or not - he doesn't seem to apear in any census after the 1881. There's also his previous service in the 21st hussars that is mentioned in his RM discharge note

Also if anyone can advise on how to check that it's genuine, whether to get a replacement ribbon for the medal, and an approximate valuation I'd appreciate it
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyWed Jan 19, 2011 11:17 pm

Quote :
The 1881 census places him still on the Boadicea, But I'm not sure of the exact date of the census in relation to the Boer war


1881 Vessel: "Boadicea" Census Place: Royal Navy, At sea or in a foreign port.
Status Married Age Sex Birthplace
Thomas LLOYD U 28 M Jersey, Channel Islands
Occupation: Leading Seaman

Henry T. HURLOCK U 27 M Alverstoke, Hampshire, England
Occupation: Able Seaman

Joseph CHARLES U 24 M Corte Castle, Dorset, England
Occupation: Able Seaman

Alfred SALTER U 22 M Jersey, Channel Islands
Occupation: Able Seaman

James FLYNN U 22 M Ireland
Occupation: Able Seaman

Alfred HAWKINS U 23 M Castle Church, Stafford, England
Occupation: Able Seaman

Edward BARRY U 34 M Ireland
Occupation: Able Seaman

Jno. W. BOAKES U 22 M Deal, Kent, England
Occupation: Able Seaman
John FOLEY M 33 M Ireland
Occupation: Able Seaman

Joseph LISMEY U 25 M Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Occupation: Able Seaman

Samuel PEARCE U 24 M Torquay, Devon, England
Occupation: Able Seaman

John SHARES U 23 M Torquay, Devon, England
Occupation: Able Seaman

Thomas PRAGNELL U 20 M Ryde, Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England
Occupation: Sailmaker Crew

Hy. W. MALBY M 24 M London, London, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Able Seaman

Charles HARRIS U 25 M London, London, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Leading Seaman

Fredk. JACKSON M 23 M London, London, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Able Seaman

Thomas HILL M 26 M Southampton, Hampshire, England
Occupation: Leading Seaman

John DONOVAN U 23 M Ireland
Occupation: Able Seaman

Edward HUNTER U 23 M Newport, Monmouth, England
Occupation: Able Seaman

Samuel KELLOND U 25 M Torquay, Devon, England
Occupation: Able Seaman

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyWed Jan 19, 2011 11:25 pm

sorry- should have posted this at the same time i mentioned the 1881 census
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyWed Jan 19, 2011 11:27 pm

CF71. Have alook through this covers light infantry/ Marines.

http://www.archive.org/stream/navylistcorrect00spotgoog#page/n191/mode/2up
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90th

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PostSubject: zulu war medal    Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyThu Jan 20, 2011 4:07 am

Hi CF71.
I cant think of any sure fire way of telling if its original other than holding it . The originals are quite heavy for their size.
Possibly take it to a numismatist who may be able to tell you either way . I would buy the ebay Ribbon . All the medals
in the shops would hardly have the original Ribbon . I dont have a copy of the 2010 or 2011 Medal Year Book , but I
would estimate the value as between 550 - 620 Pds . Idea
cheers 90th.
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyThu Jan 20, 2011 12:03 pm

Thanks for the info 90th

I noticed in another thread that you'd be interested in seeing the edge inscription for a RM LI issued medal, so I'll have another go at taking a picture

Littlehand - thanks for the link - from what i can see it doesn't cover NCO's - just the officers - a pity as it woud have been a good resource (I guess it still is if you want to research an officer) - understandable though as it would ahve made the book far too big.
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyThu Jan 20, 2011 12:18 pm

Name, Rank, RM, HMS **** is how they were named.

Why do you doubt the medal's authenticity? Sounds right.
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyThu Jan 20, 2011 12:23 pm

Value £450

+/- £100 depending...
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyThu Jan 20, 2011 1:18 pm

tasker224 wrote:
Name, Rank, RM, HMS **** is how they were named.

Why do you doubt the medal's authenticity? Sounds right.

I don't have any reason to doubt it - I was just wondering if there was any way to check - it does feel heavy for it's size and it looks genuine to my untrained eye
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyThu Jan 20, 2011 2:42 pm

To the best of my knowledge the 1st Boer War took place from December, 1880 - March, 1881.

The 1881 Census was conducted in April, 1881. I cross checked names of Killed and wounded and found that those who were killed at the battle of Mujaba do not appear on the census while those who were wounded or mentioned in reports do appear.

Hope that helps.


Petty Officer Tom

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyThu Jan 20, 2011 3:09 pm

POTom - do you know if the names of those marines who went ashore with the naval brigade would be recorded anywhere, such as in the ship's log? I'm assuming that they would normally all leave the ship (unless they were unfit to fight because of illness or injury).

ADM 53/11593 is the boadicea's logs from 6 Nov 1879 - 10 June 1881 so that would cover the relevant time.
If you think that the logs would cover movements among the marines to the extent of naming the NCOs (and maybe even get a date for his promotion to sergeant) then i might make a trip to kew at some point.
Would he have a unique service number such as soldiers have today that could be used to trace him through his marines service regardless of misspellings? or would he have had one with the mentioned previous service with the 21st hussars?
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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyThu Jan 20, 2011 9:19 pm

CF71,

The names of Marine and Navy personnel who went ashore for brigade service would have been recorded. Not sure if it would be in the ship's log or not. Not all of the ship's marines would have gone. Marines were still needed onboard for their regular duties. (The ship's safety and operation comes first.)

I read in a piece of naval correspondence during the Zulu War that the names of those who were sent ashore to serve in the naval brigade were in the "list attached". Unfortunately the list was not included. Apparently the Admiralty did not think list pertinent to its report to Parliament.

Royal Marine Service Records are located in ADM 159, and includes the individual's Register Number. They are generally a 3 or 4 digit number. Like tasker224, I too have searched that file, using different spellings of Heazle's name, but could not locate him.

I would definitely make a trip to KEW (several probably) to search ship's logs for those involved in the Zulu War, but it is a bit too far away for me. To be honest, I would rent a cot, and spend as much time there as I could until there was nothing left to read about each ship and her men involved in the Zulu War.

Petty Officer Tom





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Chard1879

Chard1879


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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyFri Jan 21, 2011 3:14 pm

Well!! I have spend quite a bit of time looking for this fellow. But must admit he's got me beat. Is this the correct name speeling
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CF71




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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyFri Jan 21, 2011 3:28 pm

Chard1879 wrote:
Well!! I have spend quite a bit of time looking for this fellow. But must admit he's got me beat. Is this the correct name speeling
it is the spelling on the medal and on various of the paperwork that are included in this thread as well.
The baptism record is transcribed as john heagle in the electronic version, but this is a typo - on the original it's Heazle

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=7&CATID=-5590338
also shows him as Heazle

ADM 157/612 Portsmouth Division - Attestations and Discharges. Described at item level

Record Summary
Scope and content Folios 6-13. John Heazle, born Quebec.
Attestation papers to serve in the Royal Marines at Portsmouth 1877 (when aged 21).
Discharged 1883 as Paid £15.
Previously served 21st Hussars.

Increasingly I'm thinking I might have to go to kew and check this out in person.
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CF71




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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyMon Jan 24, 2011 10:48 am

Just an update to the genealogy side of my reearch - I've traced back to the middle-late 18th century on my maternal grandfather's side and there are a bunch of Hassel's and Hazell's there (the name changes within the same branch) , so that could be my connection to john heazle.

As another query - I wonder how many canadian born winners of the medal there were - does anyone have a version of the medal roll that shows the places of birth/nationaities ?
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: zulu war medal    Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyMon Jan 24, 2011 11:04 am

Hi CF71.
Sorry none of the rolls have that info as far as I'm aware . Suspect Idea .
cheers 90th.
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CF71




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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Feb 15, 2011 10:40 pm

I have had a friend with a good camera take some decent photos of the medal - i've picked some out and put a zipfile on one of the free filehosts
http://oron.com/6xevjsutm6t8/Hi-Res.zip.html

I'm not familiar with how medals are graded for condition, so if anyone would like to hazard a guess, I'd appreciate it
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CF71




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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Mar 22, 2011 4:54 pm

My mother has decided that she wants to sell the medal - If anyone here would like t make an offer, please drop me a PM
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gaturnbull




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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Jul 05, 2011 8:17 pm

Hello everyone,

I was fascinated to discover various researchers discussing John Heazle and his service with the Royal Marines on this forum. I can confirm that John Heazle did travel to Melbourne, Australia, after he was discharged. He had family in Melbourne, namely his cousins, the Maillard family of Richmond. After his death, other cousins came to Melbourne too: Thomas John Turnbull of Richmond and Alice Elizabeth Jacobs. You could be related to anyone of these extended families. A year or so after arriving in Melbourne, John Heazle joined the Victorian Police. Sadly he died not long later.

The link between all these families is John Heazle's father, Thomas Heazle. Thomas lived from about 1816 and died in Quebec in 1861. At the time of his death, Thomas was an Inn Keeper but he had previously served wth the British Royal Artillary as a gunner and driver.

His daughter, Mary Heazle married William Stephenson Turnbull (who was a sergeant in the British Royal Artillery). Another daughter, Elizabeth Heazle married Edward Aston (another sergeant in the Royal Artillery). Their descendants came to Melbourne.

I have posted everything I know about John Heazle below. I hope you find it interesting. Please contact me if and when you find out how you are related. Please let me know if you happen to find a photograph of John Heazle.

Cheers,
gaturnbull.


JOHN HEAZLE (1856 - 1885)
BAPTISM INFORMATION:
John, son of Thomas Heazle of the city of Quebec, tavern keeper, and of Ann his wife, by her maiden name Nickelson, was born on the twenty fourth of November and baptised this seventh day of December in the year of Our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred and Fiftfy Six, by me George Mackie D.D. Signed by Thomas Heazle, William C. Adams and Jane Adams.

NAVAL SERVICE:
The UK National Archives state that John Heazle served with the Royal Marines from 1877 until 1883 and that he previously served with the 21st Hussars. (can't confirm this) His attestation papers to serve in the Royal Marines at Portsmouth were created in 1877 when aged 21. He was discharged in 1883 and paid 15 pounds.
In 1881, HMS Boadicea provided a naval brigade for the first Boer War.

1881 ENGLISH CENSUS:
John Heazle is listed as an unmarried 24 year old Royal Navy Sergeant R.M.L.I. residing on the ship "Boadicea". He was born in Quebec, Canada. He was residing in the Royal Navy at sea or in a foreign port. His head was: Sgt George Vowles born at Bristol. Family history film 1342355 (RG11), piece 5640/folio 50, page 15.

IMMIGRATION:
John Heazle, saddler, aged 27 immigrated to Victoria on board the ship, "Pathan" in March 1884. He was an English unassisted migrant. The ship left a British port on 2 Feb 1884, the trip taking 90 days. (PROV fiche 432, page 3).

DEATH CERTIFICATE: Victorian registration number 09453/1885. He was aged 29. John Heazle died in the Victorian Police Barracks at Melbourne. He was a police constable. There was not an inquest but his death was unexpected.

BURIAL INFORMATION:
John Heazle was buried at MELBOURNE GENERAL CEMETERY, registration number 17820, site: COE CC 667.

NEWSPAPER DEATH & FUNERAL NOTICES:
The Argus, 7 Sep 1885:
On the 6th inst. at the Police Depot Victoria Barracks St Kilda Road Mr John Heazle aged 29 years.

The Argus, 7 Sep 1885:
Friends of the late Mr John Heazle (senior constable) are respectfully invited to follow his remains to the place of interment, the Melbourne General Cemetery. The funeral will leave the Police Depot Victoria Barracks St Kilda Road this day (Monday 7th inst) at 2 o'clock. - John Daley undertaker.

VICTORIAN POLICE SERVICE RECORD:
John Heazle number 3556, born 24th November 1856 at Quebec, Canada (height 5 feet 7.5 inches, grey eyes, brown hair, fair complexion), saddler by trade, Church of England by religion,general smart appearance, appointed a Victorian Police Constable on the 13th April 1885. The rate of pay being 6/6 per day for first two years, 7/- per day for next two years, 7/6 per day from 4th to 10th years, and after that 8/- per day. He had been previously in the public service at the Reformatory School Ballarat from 19 May 1884 to 12 April 1885, when he joined the Victorian Police Force. He was a single man. His referees were Captain Evans as well as his papers of military service. He was also a freemason 1860 E.C. Dated 13th April 1885 at Melbourne before a J.P. and signed by John Heazle.
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Zulu war medal - clasp 1879   Zulu war medal - clasp 1879 EmptyTue Jul 05, 2011 8:29 pm

gaturnbull. Welcome to the forum. Excellent first post. Thanks very much for the information.
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