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L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptyTue May 14, 2024 7:17 pm by Petty Officer Tom

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L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptySat May 04, 2024 6:50 pm by Hobbes

» 24th Regiment side drum a plea for help
L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptyThu May 02, 2024 6:11 pm by General Gordon

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L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptyThu May 02, 2024 1:01 pm by Hobbes

» The curious tale of Cetshwayo's "gunpowder depot" and an aggressive snake
L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptyWed Apr 24, 2024 3:26 pm by Hobbes

» Lieut. B. Pohl, No. 7 Coy 1/3 Natal Native Contingent
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» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.
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 L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard

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FJH




Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-02-06

L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard Empty
PostSubject: L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard   L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 3:38 pm

I have my great grandfather's medals, including the South Africa Medal with crossed assegais and a shield. The medals are inscribed C/3417 LCpl F. Howard. From the "C" I believe he was with the 3rd Battalion, The 60th (The King's Royal Rifle Corps) Regiment of Foot. He also had the 1882 Egypt Medal and the Khedive Star (1882). Because we have limited information on his military service, or anything else for that matter, his medals may be the one remaining source we can tap. We know that in 1871 he a Private at "District Camp 4th Battalion Rifle Brigade, Cheriton, Kent"; in Jun 1876 he was with the Army Service Corps; and in 1881 he was a Private, Royal Artillery.

Can anyone tell me if C/3417 Joseph Howard is listed on the Medal Rolls, and if so, what unit he was serving with?

Thanks in advance, John
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1879graves

1879graves


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L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard Empty
PostSubject: Re: L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard   L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 4:03 pm

Hi FJH

Welcome to the forum.

C/3417 L/Corp. F.Howard is listed on the Medal Roll but not in the 60th. He is listed in the Army Service Corps. The "C" stands for Commissariat Department.

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FJH




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L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard Empty
PostSubject: Re: L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard   L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 4:38 pm

Thanks for the welcome, and the quick response.

Could you tell me the meaning of the three columns on the right "Yes, Serving, X"?

We weren't sure when he transferred from the ASC to the RA, before or after South Africa. I had used the "Long, Long Trail" website for an explanation of the service number prefixes. I must have misinterpreted their website page on regimental number letter prefixes, as I thought they were the meanings for before 1920, but perhaps they are for after 1919. The listing of mechanical transport and petroleum further down the page should have been a clue!

At what level of unit would the ASC have been attached, and is there any way to determine in what South African battles or geographical locations Frank would have served? I suspect his service record was destroyed in WWII bombing.

Great website... once I get more time I'm going to have to dip into various boards.

John

1879graves wrote:
Hi FJH

Welcome to the forum.

C/3417 L/Corp. F.Howard is listed on the Medal Roll but not in the 60th. He is listed in the Army Service Corps. The "C" stands for Commissariat Department.

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1879graves

1879graves


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L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard Empty
PostSubject: Re: L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard   L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 4:58 pm

Hi John

This is a clearer image of the columns on the Medal Roll.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

As you will now see that the Yes is under the Column that states Medal Without Clasp, Which means that Frank did not cross the Border into Zululand. That also means that he did not take part in any battles of the Zulu War but he served in Natal during the War.

The word Serving means that when the roll was written, Frank was still serving with the ASC.

I hope this helps a little.
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1879graves

1879graves


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L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard Empty
PostSubject: Re: L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard   L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptySun Feb 06, 2011 5:13 pm

Hi John

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

As you can now see that the Roll was written in Nov 1880, so Frank was still serving with the ASC then.

You can also see what the X means

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L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard Empty
PostSubject: Re: L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard   L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptyTue Feb 08, 2011 3:04 am

1879graves wrote:
Hi FJH

The "C" stands for Commissariat Department.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


I've since found Frank's service record, and at times his service number was prefixed with an "S", not a "C". Could you tell me what that would indicate? Also, is there a site that has a list of the more common meanings of SN prefixes?

Thanks, John
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1879graves

1879graves


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PostSubject: Re: L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard   L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptyTue Feb 08, 2011 7:30 pm

Hi FJH

You state that you have found Frank's service record, would it be possible for you to publish it?

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L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard Empty
PostSubject: Re: L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard   L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptyTue Feb 08, 2011 8:48 pm

1879graves wrote:
Hi FJH

You state that you have found Frank's service record, would it be possible for you to publish it?


Eventually, yes, but I've received it from someone with a subscription to a particular genealogy site, and I don't feel comfortable sharing it until I get a subscription there and access the records myself. I'll also have to read their agreement and see what their caveats are on publishing.
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1879graves

1879graves


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PostSubject: Re: L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard   L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptyTue Feb 08, 2011 9:00 pm

Hi FJH

I total understand Idea
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rai




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L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard Empty
PostSubject: Re: L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard   L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptyThu Dec 15, 2022 7:48 am

Hi All,
Frank Howard Attested 6 Sept 1870 No.1866 4/60th age19, born Kingsland [Brentford] London, 1852. To Army Service Corps 31 Oct 1872, No.3417 2nd Class Clerk, at Chatham 31 May 1879, in Natal 24 July 1879 to 15 July 1880 to Cape Town 26 July 1880 to 18 Oct 1880 to UK. Married Jemima Webb 14 June 1876 in Chatham 2 Children. 1871 census in Royal Artillery Camp Shorncliffe but now in Commissariat Department. Served Egypt 1882 Commissariat Dept. Discharged 21 Dec 1891 Ashton Under Lyme. 1901 Census Add Plumstead, he is a Cordite Labourer at Woolwich Arsenal. He probably dies Dec Qtr 1903 in Woolwich District [William Joseph Howard].
Rai Keynshamlighthorse.
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rai




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L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard Empty
PostSubject: Re: L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard   L/Cpl Frank Joseph Howard EmptyThu Dec 15, 2022 7:53 am

Hi All
Frank Joseph Howard died 9 Oct 1903 and was buried on the 13 Oct 1903 in Plumstead Cemetery in Plot H grave 112, it is a Unmarked Common Grave.
Rai KLH
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