Latest topics | » John Fielding Day  Yesterday at 2:11 pm by Julian Whybra » John Warman AHC 2336 Yesterday at 11:30 am by rai » Rare books to sell/swap Wed May 31, 2023 7:26 am by peter@zuluwars » Bogus claims to having taken part in the defence of the mission station Rorkes Drift.  Tue May 30, 2023 1:01 pm by Mr M. Cooper » Zulu Dawn - my part in making a great movie Tue May 30, 2023 10:57 am by Julian Whybra » Pope-Degacher personailty clash Mon May 29, 2023 6:51 pm by Julian Whybra » Smith, John. Private. 25B/1005, B Company RD Defender. Sun May 28, 2023 10:48 pm by Tim Needham » Rorke's Drift VC's Fri May 26, 2023 5:39 pm by Frank Allewell » Clash of Empires Exhibition - Registration Fri May 26, 2023 5:14 pm by Bill8183 » A Corporal, 1st Battalion, South Wales Borderers, circa 1882 Wed May 24, 2023 9:40 pm by Mr M. Cooper » Zulu campfires Mon May 22, 2023 10:48 pm by Eddie » Zulu Muskets  Mon May 22, 2023 10:22 pm by Eddie » Burst pipes cause damage to the Royal Welsh Museum, Brecon. Sun May 21, 2023 7:42 pm by John Young » Hired Transports of The Anglo - Zulu War 1879 Sun May 21, 2023 3:22 pm by Mr M. Cooper » VC's Rorkes Drift 1879 Sun May 21, 2023 3:21 pm by jgregory » Was it a dog at Rordke's Drift? Sun May 21, 2023 3:16 pm by jgregory » Rorkes Drift VC sold Sat May 20, 2023 10:33 am by jgregory » Not lost all ...!!! Sat May 20, 2023 2:00 am by Eddie » Brevet Major. Henry Spalding of Rorke's Drift and Information for Columns Thu May 18, 2023 10:58 am by Richard Spalding » Grahamstown Cdv ebay soldier cape corps Thu May 18, 2023 10:57 am by ciroferrara » Colonel Frederick Cardew Thu May 18, 2023 9:58 am by John Young » Surruier Captain RE? Mon May 15, 2023 12:25 pm by John Young » A Major, 2nd Battalion, Connaught Rangers circa 1890. Sun May 14, 2023 4:30 pm by John Young » Why no Zulu Ambush/Attack on moving Columns? Sun May 14, 2023 9:28 am by Julian Whybra » Drum-Major A.T. Rixon, 58th  Fri May 12, 2023 9:43 am by Catiline63 » 1309 PTE H. HERBERT, 2-24TH FOOT Fri May 12, 2023 8:48 am by rai » Captain Arthur Harrington Kyle  Fri May 12, 2023 8:31 am by rai » 324 Pte O Hughes 1/24th, killed at Isandlwana Thu May 11, 2023 8:28 am by ADMIN » Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty Wed May 10, 2023 5:29 pm by Julian Whybra » Zulu Victory or British Defeat?: Analysing the Battle of Isandlwana, 1879 Mon May 08, 2023 8:47 am by Julian Whybra » New Shaka Series Sun May 07, 2023 12:25 pm by Jon84 » Morosi's Mountain  Sun May 07, 2023 4:04 am by aussie inkosi » Mr Alfred Dobson (Frontier Light Horse) Sun May 07, 2023 3:53 am by aussie inkosi » Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ? Fri May 05, 2023 9:52 am by jgregory » University Essay Wed May 03, 2023 5:55 pm by bayonet charge |
Top posting users this month | |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards | |
| | Author | Message |
---|
Frank Allewell

Posts : 8435 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 76 Location : Cape Town South Africa
 | Subject: Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:04 am | |
| (In the Donga) Davis noted with concern that the uMbonambi were massing in the hollows bellow the conical Kopie, risking cross fire to press between Durnfords left and Popes Company. He, Davies, then took 15 men and went for ammunition, on his way back with some 600 rounds, he noticed that groups on uMbonambi had penetrated between Durnford and Pope and were fast aproaching the tents.
Edwards ..................men began to realise the hopeless position (in the donga) suddenly one shouted, "The zulus are in the camp", and they were with a vengeance.
The uMbonambi were credited by Cetswayo as being first into the camp. So before the donga gave way the Zulu were allready behind the mounted men, to the left and to the right and in the camp.
Therefore if contempory authors, Snook te al, are to be believed , ( and they have gone to considerably lengths to prove that point) Pullein had positioned himself to the left front of the camp area to see the right flank. The question now arrises that if we accept all these facts why didnt Pullein pull back Pope before Durnford abandoned the donga. I beilieve the military minded among the forum would call it refusing the right flank.
Just a thought for discussion.
Regards |
|  | | 90th

Posts : 10752 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 67 Location : Melbourne, Australia
 | Subject: Lt Harry Davis and Trpr Edwards . Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:48 pm | |
| HI Springbok . Bare with me here I'm only summarising as I havent walked the ground at Isandlwana . The ground I believe is rather difficult possibly Pulleine couldnt see Pope's Co from the position he was occupying ? . If I remember correctly , Durnford only abandoned the donga because he was running out of ammunition , therefore Pulleine wouldnt have had any idea that this was about to happen ? . Also didnt Pulleine send Pope to the donga in the hope of holding the donga with the extra men ? . Poor Charlie Pope was on his way to the donga ( hence him being to the right of the firing line ) when Durnford mounted up and withdrew , basically leaving Pope out to dry . Also as I stated Durnford was running low on ammo as he had sent back several people to get ammo but they basically came back empty handed if they came back at all or were fruitlessly searching for their ammunition wagon ! . Durnford could more than likely see that the left horn was getting around his right flank and knew they would be cut off , so therefore his position became untenable and he had no option but to withdraw . cheers 90th. |
|  | | Frank Allewell

Posts : 8435 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 76 Location : Cape Town South Africa
 | Subject: Re: Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:23 am | |
| Hi 90th Point by point. Yes from various points of the firing line the Donga is invisible. However from around a third of the way down Popes line, hypothetical placing, it is highly visible. Mike Snook has gone to great trouble, in attempting to exonerate Pullein, in placing him at the front line. Its conjectured by him that it was Pullein who called for the withdrawl on seeing Durnford pull back, therefore the donga would have been visible. The area of penetration between Pope and Durnford would therefore have been visible, after all if you see a bunch of screaming Zulus heading towards your tents its pretty obvious that some thing is afoot. From that point the left horn has curled around Durnfords flank, he is seperated from Pope by the incursions. So he packs up, loses control and runs for it. The point Im trying to make is I suppose that there were other factors over the 'low ammo state' that caused the withdrawl and subsequent loss. Assume Dirnford had a mythical supply of ordinance, would ir have made a difference? Zulus to the left of him, Zulus to the right, ( with apologise to Alfred Lord Tennyson) and Zulus about to perform rectal surgery. The line was breached the best case scenario would have involved a pocket of men isolated in the Donga while ethe left horn streamed around him. Does that make any kind of sense? I spent some time walking the position from the guns position down to the end of the donga, just passed the road crossing. Its a hell of a distance to cover. When I walked back to Popes cairns and you look around, you only then start to apreciate the vast length covered by Pope, Bradsteet and Durnford. Plot the aprox number of men onto the mind map and it just doesnt come across as a perfect defensive position. Probable Durnfords position was a wrong choice, if he needed the shelter of the donga he should have taken up a position a few hundred meters closer to the conical Kopie. Even then, that would have closed the gap and made the line stronger but would have made the left horns flanking movement evem easier. No win situation.
Just thinking aloud is all.
Regards |
|  | | 90th

Posts : 10752 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 67 Location : Melbourne, Australia
 | Subject: Lt Harry Davis and Trpr Edwards . Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:12 pm | |
| Hi Springbok. I can see your point in regard to Durnford having the mythical rounds . Ie . He would as you say still have little choice but to withdraw as he wasnt in the best position the Donga could have afforded ? . So , there wasnt much he could have done either way ?. Interesting thoughts . cheers 90th. |
|  | | | Lt Harry Davis and Trooper Edwards | |
|
Similar topics |  |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |