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Film Zulu quote: Reverend Otto Witt: One thousand British soldiers have been massacred. While I stood here talking peace, a war has started.
 
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» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyToday at 1:33 pm by John Young

» List of identified bodies at Isandlwana
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyThu Sep 17, 2020 5:30 am by John Young

» Defenders of Rorkes Drift
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Sep 16, 2020 6:47 pm by Digger

» Colour Sgt Anthony Clark Booth, VC.
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyTue Sep 15, 2020 6:47 pm by ADMIN

» Cpl John Lyons
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 7:49 pm by Bill8183

» A Case of Mistaken Identity?
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 11:29 am by John Young

» What happened next
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyMon Sep 14, 2020 10:51 am by Springbok

» Surgeon Espine Charles Ward
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Sep 09, 2020 9:38 am by John Young

» 2nd Lieutenant William Lancelot James, 2nd/4th Regiment.
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 2:41 pm by ADMIN

» Explaining Amabutho in one word??
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyMon Sep 07, 2020 11:49 am by SRB1965

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Navy and Royal Marines
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyThu Sep 03, 2020 4:05 pm by Frank Allewell

» Non-Combat Casualties - Royal Artillery
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Sep 02, 2020 8:01 pm by Catiline63

» Colonel William,Egerton Saunders, C.B
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:46 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant-Colonel David Campbell Williamson.
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:32 pm by ADMIN

» Brigade Surgeon E. J. Boulton
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 10:02 pm by ADMIN

» Joseph Walter O’Malley Martin. Assistant Surgeon
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:52 pm by ADMIN

» Quarter-Master William London
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:32 pm by ADMIN

» Surgeon Major Henry Lamb
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:19 pm by ADMIN

» Lieutenant Robert Thomas Graves Lowry
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 9:13 pm by ADMIN

» Sgt. John Philip Archbell NNC
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 8:43 pm by ADMIN

» Tpr. John Ross Natal Carbineer
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 8:27 pm by ADMIN

» Non-Combat Casualties in Colonial and Native Units
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySun Aug 30, 2020 11:52 am by Julian Whybra

» Victorian HMS SHAH South Africa Zulu Wars Medal William Morrison Royal Navy
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 5:50 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» South African 1879 Zulu War medal to Corp R Starkey 57th Regiment of Foot
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 3:50 pm by 1879graves

» 2/4th Foot at Hlobane/Kambula
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyFri Aug 28, 2020 4:12 am by 90th

» England's Sons 9th edition
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Aug 26, 2020 6:20 pm by Herbie

» Strange tales from Isandlwana
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySun Aug 23, 2020 4:25 pm by SRB1965

» Colour - Sergeant George William Mabin
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySat Aug 22, 2020 5:48 pm by Visitor

» Militaria Sale
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyTue Aug 18, 2020 5:59 pm by Frank Allewell

» Men of the 24th Regiment of Foot - Secunderabad, India 1873
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyTue Aug 18, 2020 12:48 am by 90th

» Malicious website
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptySun Aug 16, 2020 9:06 pm by ADMIN

» Rorkes drift Hotel
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyThu Aug 13, 2020 7:00 pm by robert taylor

» Durnford's medical officer
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyThu Aug 06, 2020 11:36 am by SRB1965

» Charles Sparks - any information available?
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyThu Aug 06, 2020 9:23 am by Julian Whybra

» back to the future
One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Aug 05, 2020 1:35 pm by aussie inkosi

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 One in Ten had a Rifle.

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Dave

Dave

Posts : 1605
Join date : 2009-09-21

One in Ten had a Rifle. Empty
PostSubject: One in Ten had a Rifle.   One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Jul 27, 2011 10:20 am

I was Just flicking through the pages of "Narrative of the Field Operations connected with the Zulu War of 1879"
On pages 23-24 there is reference to the Battle of "Inyezane" and in the area of Majia's Hill. The NNC were send up this hill to dislodge some Zulu's that had been seen. As they were getting near top a large body of Zulu's appeared on the hill some 400 yards on the left flank opening fire on the NNC troops who could not make an effective reply, as one in ten of the company,beside the european non-commissioned officers, carried rifles; the NNC to avoid being cut off made a hasty retreat.

Now I'm probably in- correct here, but I'm sure somewhere on the forum it was established that all members of the NNC were armed with rifles. It this is not the case, is it really fair to call members of the Native Troops cowards not just relating to this Battle but in all the Battles they took part in along side the British. Is it fair to expect them to stand their ground alongside soldiers who had better means to protect themselves and who could kill the enemy from a distance.
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Mr Greaves

Mr Greaves

Posts : 748
Join date : 2009-10-18

One in Ten had a Rifle. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One in Ten had a Rifle.   One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Jul 27, 2011 11:10 am

I would have thought, the NNC and other native units would have been far happier using the weapons they were accustomed too which would have been the same as the Zulu’s they were fighting. They probably fled because of the overwhelming number just as the British and other colonial units had.

Mr G.
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90th

90th

Posts : 10130
Join date : 2009-04-07
Age : 64
Location : Melbourne, Australia

One in Ten had a Rifle. Empty
PostSubject: One in ten had a rifle   One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Jul 27, 2011 1:28 pm

Hi Dave.
I'm assuming your thread is titled '' One in ten had a rifle '' . I can tell you that the NNC ( Natal Native Contingent ) did indeed have only one rifle between 10 and if I remember correctly the native who had the rifle was only given 5 rounds !!. Which no doubt was
squeezed off as quickly as possible !!. We have never established that all the members of the NNC were issued a rifle . We have indeed established what you have written , ie ; One rifle per 10 NNC . This is mentioned in many books on the AZW. Hope this helps.
cheers 90th. Idea
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24th

24th

Posts : 1851
Join date : 2009-03-25

One in Ten had a Rifle. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One in Ten had a Rifle.   One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Jul 27, 2011 3:08 pm

There was a brief disussion here.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Durnford’s Natal Native Horse had the Westley Richards carbine rifle,
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Neil Aspinshaw

Neil Aspinshaw

Posts : 552
Join date : 2009-10-14
Location : Loughborough

One in Ten had a Rifle. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One in Ten had a Rifle.   One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Jul 27, 2011 6:31 pm

24th
Actually a mix, of Terry carbines, .50" Westley Richards Monkey tails,.450" but predominant Snider in .577". Bullet head evidence from the battlefields does back up this mix.
It is often stated that Durnford armed his men with Swinburns chambering conventional Mk3 Martini Ammo, unlikely, as it was the S-H was cost prohibitive at the time. What snippet from Isandwana that do survive is that Durnford was clearing the jammed cartridges with a flick of his good hand, it can only be a bash of the front of an open Snider block to clear the breech.

Believe me, a jammed Martini takes more than a "flick".
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http://www.martinihenry.org
24th

24th

Posts : 1851
Join date : 2009-03-25

One in Ten had a Rifle. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One in Ten had a Rifle.   One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Jul 27, 2011 8:20 pm

Thanks Neil. Was all the mounted native units armed with rifles. I guess an assegai and shield on horse back would have been as much good as an ash tray on a motorbike.
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Mr Greaves

Mr Greaves

Posts : 748
Join date : 2009-10-18

One in Ten had a Rifle. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One in Ten had a Rifle.   One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Jul 27, 2011 10:57 pm

I also expect there would have been some uncertainty with regards that if they had been trained how to use the rifles and had all be issued with them, would they have stayed with the British or moved back over to the Zulu side. Too much information could have been dangerous. Just a thought.
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24th

24th

Posts : 1851
Join date : 2009-03-25

One in Ten had a Rifle. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One in Ten had a Rifle.   One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyWed Jul 27, 2011 11:42 pm

I do believe there were accounts of the NNC at Isandlwana removing their red bandannas in the hope of being mistaken for Zulu’s by the Zulu’s if you know what I mean.
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Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1998
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 23

One in Ten had a Rifle. Empty
PostSubject: Re: One in Ten had a Rifle.   One in Ten had a Rifle. EmptyMon Sep 05, 2011 8:23 pm

The Imperial Mounted Infantry – a scratch cavalry force raised from volunteers from infantry battalions who could ride – were not ‘armed with unwieldy Martini-Henry rifles’ (p. 68) but with Swinburne-Henry carbines.

From Iann Knights reveiw of The heroism and tragady of the Zulu war 1879
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