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barry
Brett Hendey
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Brett Hendey

Brett Hendey


Posts : 264
Join date : 2010-12-02
Location : Kloof, KZN

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PostSubject: BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyTue Nov 22, 2011 5:28 am

Barry

The NMP badge that you are using as an avatar is new to me and I suspect that it must be very rare. What do you know about it?

Regards
Brett
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barry

barry


Posts : 947
Join date : 2011-10-21
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PostSubject: NMP badge, avatar   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyTue Nov 22, 2011 5:40 am


Hi Brett,

Nice hearing from you and thanks for giving your view on the picture uploads.
The badge shown as my avatar is an early cap badge of the NMP . I have it from Spinks that they are scarcer than hen's teeth and are valued accordingly. It is cast in pure silver and hangs in my family medal display.

regards
barry
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90th

90th


Posts : 10482
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PostSubject: Barry's Current Avatar   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyTue Nov 22, 2011 9:49 am

Hi Barry .
Do you have any other details ie Date of issue etc etc ? . If not I will check my copy of Clive Owen's Badges Of Sth Africa
tomorrow when I get home , hopefully I'll remember to do so if required . Idea
cheers 90th.
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barry

barry


Posts : 947
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PostSubject: NMP badge avatar   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyTue Nov 22, 2011 10:17 am

Hi 90th,

Unfortunately I have no idea of the issue date, except to surmise it was used earlier in the history of the force rather than later. I have checked photographs in the family archives from the period 1880-1894 ( when they became NP) but cannot see any pics which would help to date it.
Brett Hendey and I would be very interested to learn if you can pick anything up on it in your reference works.

regards and thanks,

barry


Last edited by barry on Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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90th

90th


Posts : 10482
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PostSubject: Barry's Current Avatar   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyTue Nov 22, 2011 10:33 am

Hi Barry.
I will endevour to sort out a date of issue . I've been chasing an NMP or NC badge as worn during the zulu war ( Original only )
for years !!. Havent given up but close to it . Suspect . If and when I do come across one it isnt going to be inexpensive , that
I know for sure . Shocked
cheers 90th. Idea
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Brett Hendey

Brett Hendey


Posts : 264
Join date : 2010-12-02
Location : Kloof, KZN

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PostSubject: Re: BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyTue Nov 22, 2011 1:12 pm

Barry's badge is not recorded in Owen's book and I have not seen it illustrated elsewhere. Since it is made of silver, it is likely to have been an officer's badge. There were probably under 10 NMP officers, including the then Sub-Inspector Clarke, at any given time during the 20 years that this force existed (1874 - 1894), so there would have been very few of these badges made. The survival rate of such badges in the Colonies is likely to have been very low.

To illustrate this belief is the example of a silver (i.e. officer's) badge of the Frontier Armed and Mounted Police (1855 - 1878) that surfaced in the Eastern Cape a few years ago. This unit became the Cape Mounted Riflemen in 1878. A medal collector in Durban who bought a few medals on an auction in Port Elizabeth received other odds and ends with the medals, including the FAMP badge mentioned above. This badge was also not recorded by Owen, although the CMR badge No. 160 in Owen's book is identical in design, except that "Frontier Armed and Mounted Police" was in place of "Cape Mounted Riflemen". At the time it was thought to be the only badge of its kind in existence and a museum in Cape Town paid a large amount of money to acquire it.

Barry's badge probably has an even higher monetary value simply because the NMP has a higher profile than the FAMP. I suspect that its sentimental value to Barry makes it priceless.

Brett
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ADMIN

ADMIN


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PostSubject: Re: BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyTue Nov 22, 2011 3:29 pm

Posted on behalf of Barry.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Photo by forum member Barry.
"Adj major Dimmock of the NMP, shown here wearing an officer's cap with the silver NMP badge .
Dimmock joined the force in 1883, but it is not known what date the picture was taken.

barry
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https://www.1879zuluwar.com
90th

90th


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PostSubject: Barry's Current Avatar   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyWed Nov 23, 2011 4:07 am

Hi Barry / Brett.
I also checked Owen's Badge Book and it isnt there as you said Brett . Not sure how we will find any info on it at all . Suspect
cheers 90th. Idea
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Brett Hendey

Brett Hendey


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PostSubject: Re: BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyWed Nov 23, 2011 7:03 am

Hi Barry

I think the badge on Dimmick's cap may be the post-Boer War Natal Police badge with the king's crown. Another thing that suggests a post-Boer War date for the photo is the fact that Dimmick seems to be wearing three medal ribbons and, while with the NMP prior to 1894, he may have worn only the Zulu War medal ribbon. I say "may" because I do not know if he was awarded any medals prior to joining the NMP.

Regards
Brett
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Saul David 1879




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PostSubject: Re: BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyWed Nov 23, 2011 6:22 pm

There are various images of the NMP emblems here. Scroll down.
Some of Bretts are here as well.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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barry

barry


Posts : 947
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PostSubject: NMP Avatar   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyWed Nov 23, 2011 6:32 pm


Hi Saul david 1879,

Thanks for link posted. Hopefully this will sort out the cap badge question.
Spinks have already looked at it and said its value was very high, because of it's rarity.


barry

P.S. Do you know anything about Maj Smith's burial site and the reinterment on the banks of the Buffalo
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90th

90th


Posts : 10482
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PostSubject: Barry's Current Avatar   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyWed Nov 23, 2011 6:33 pm

Hi SD.
Good get , very interesting site .
cheers 90th. Idea
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ADMIN

ADMIN


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PostSubject: Re: BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyWed Nov 23, 2011 7:05 pm

Posted on behalf of forum member Brett. Text & Photo by Brett.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
I'm suggesting that the cap badge worn by Inspector Dimmick is that of the NATAL POLICE, not the NATAL MOUNTED POLICE.  I am attaching here a picture showing the NP badge and would be grateful if you would post it so others may judge for themselves.

Idea
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat


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PostSubject: Re: BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyWed Nov 23, 2011 9:29 pm

Yip!! It looks the same to me.
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90th

90th


Posts : 10482
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PostSubject: Barry's Current Avatar   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyThu Nov 24, 2011 3:58 am

Hi Brett / Barry.
Do either of you or anyone for that matter know what the Badge of ' The Cape Mounted Yeomanry ' looked like ? . I cant find
it in ' Owen ' , is it possible it was the same badge as ' The Cape Mounted Rifleman ' ?. I believe the ' Yeomanry ' was an off shoot
of the Cape Mounted Rifleman . Thanks in advance for your time and efforts , they are / will be appreciated .
Cheers 90th .
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barry

barry


Posts : 947
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PostSubject: CMR   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyThu Nov 24, 2011 4:51 am

Hi 90th,
I will take a look, I seem to remember somehting about them and uniforms in my records and this may include badges too.


barry
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Brett Hendey

Brett Hendey


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Join date : 2010-12-02
Location : Kloof, KZN

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PostSubject: Re: BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyThu Nov 24, 2011 5:41 am

90th

I have also been unable to find anything about a badge for the Cape Mounted Yeomanry. Curzon's 1954 and 1962 publications make no mention of one. Given the rarity of Barry's NMP badge and the one for the FAMP that I mentioned, which were both probably worn only by officers, a similarly rare CMY badge may still be awaiting discovery.

I doubt that the unit would have shared the CMR badge. Tylden's book, 'The Armed Forces of South Africa', includes the statement that the CMY "was intended to form with the C.M.R., a mobile striking force for employment on the Eastern frontier." Tylden goes on to describe how the three CMY regiments were distinguished from one another:
1st Regiment (HQ Grahamstown) - "blue with white plastrons"
2nd Regiment (HQ Queenstown) - "red plastrons"
3rd Regiment (HQ Uitenhage) - ?

The statement, "Uniform blue with yellow or buff facings.", follows after mention of the 3rd Regiment, but probably refers to the unit as a whole.

Regards
Brett



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90th

90th


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PostSubject: Barry's Current Avatar   BARRY'S CURRENT AVATAR EmptyThu Nov 24, 2011 5:50 am

Hi Barry / Brett .
Thanks very much for the quick replies , they as ever are very much appreciated . Idea . Hopefully a photo or something
will find the light of day regarding their Badge & Uniform .
cheers 90th. Idea
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