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Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
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» Australians who went to Zululand and fought in the 1879 war.
Henry Curling comment. EmptyYesterday at 2:23 am by peterfarrell

» About the second invasion
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» Zulu Festival Brecon July 2024
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» Letter of officer during Zulu wars.
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» Bearing The Cross by Ken Blakeson | BBC RADIO DRAMA: Ken Blakeson's play tells the story of the Battle of Rorke's Drift and the effect it had on three of the soldiers who fought in it.
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 Henry Curling comment.

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Saul David 1879
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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Henry Curling comment. Empty
PostSubject: Henry Curling comment.   Henry Curling comment. EmptySun Jun 28, 2009 4:29 pm

Henry Curling made some comments relating to the Volunteers and Native Contingent Officers at Isandhlwana that was to cause him some problems.

Curling stated in one of his letters “ You will see all sorts of accounts in the papers and no end of lies. Most of those who escaped were volunteers and native contingent officers who tell any number of lies.”

Why should someone who. He himself had escaped; make comments like this about other escapee’s

And was this to affect him personally or his military career?
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Saul David 1879




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Henry Curling comment. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Henry Curling comment.   Henry Curling comment. EmptyMon Jun 29, 2009 7:07 pm

CTSG.
If you have the book (The Curling Letters of the Zulu War) Turn to page 133.You will see that Shepstone who commanded the Volunteers, has some hash words for Curling.
He also up-set Harness, and promotion did not come so quickly for Curling.
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John

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Henry Curling comment. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Henry Curling comment.   Henry Curling comment. EmptyTue Jun 30, 2009 10:30 pm

With refrence to Curling's Letters. Page 88 near the bottom of page.

It states. " On the 21 January, Chelmsford sent out a mounted patrol under the command of an experienced ex-imperial officer named Major John Dartnell. He was to investigate an area eight miles to the southeast and report back. Instead, Dartnell, who had seen groups of Zulus in the hills, ignored theses instruction and bivouacked for the night.
Dartnell sent a message to Chelmsford saying he had see Zulus and requested
Reinforcements. Chelmsford came to the conclusion that Dartnell had come across the main Zulu army and decides to march out with half his command”

Would it have made a difference if Dartnell had report back instead of staying over night? If Dartnell had reported back when he saw the Zulus would Chelmsford have stayed at Isandhlwana and formed a defensive position, or would he have move the whole column to engage.
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90th

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Henry Curling comment. Empty
PostSubject: dartnell"s dilemma.   Henry Curling comment. EmptyWed Jul 01, 2009 12:15 am

hi john,

im afraid dartnell was in catch 22 situation, after seemingly finding the zulus he needed to keep an eye on them.
As in the past, it was difficult to make contact with the native foe"s , who usually bolted when confronted. so, he sent for reinforcements. As to your question if " dartnell returned to camp ", chelmsford may have ordered a defensive perimeter be put into place, but i think he would moved off in search of them, as he wished to have a confrontation much sooner than later.

cheers 90th
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John

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Henry Curling comment. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Henry Curling comment.   Henry Curling comment. EmptyThu Jul 02, 2009 1:33 pm

Just out of interest. What was Raw, sent out to do. When he left Isandhlwana. Was under instruction to do something in particular.
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90th

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Henry Curling comment. Empty
PostSubject: LT. RAW.   Henry Curling comment. EmptyThu Jul 02, 2009 3:46 pm

hi john,

from what i can gather 2 troops of DURNFORD"S men, under command of RAW and ROBERTS were sent out eastwards of the camp, to undertake a scouting mission, there was no sign of the large bodies of zulus who were seen in that area , earlier in the morning, but they came across smaller parties and decided to pursue, the following are RAW"S own words, " we left camp, proceeding over the hills....the enemy in small clumps retiring before us for some time, drawing us 4 or 5 miles from camp when they turned and fell upon us, the whole army showing itself from behind the hill in front where they had evidently been waiting"... I think the scene in zulu dawn when they find the zulu army as they ride up to the crest of the hill, is exactly what happened, never fails to give me a chill !

cheers 90th
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Saul David 1879




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Henry Curling comment. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Henry Curling comment.   Henry Curling comment. EmptyThu Jul 02, 2009 8:13 pm

Raw was on patrol at leased 7 miles out on the Nqutu Plateu. He gave chase to some Zulu Boy herders and their cattle. James Hamer who was accompanying Raw and his men. was one of the few survivors to give an account.

Hamer States.

" After going some little way we tried to capture some cattle. They dropped over a ridge, we saw the Zulu like ants in front of us. In perfect order as quite as mice and stretched across in even lines. We estimated those we saw at 12,000."


So we could say, If Raw had done what he was supposed to do, and that was patrol instead of trying to capture Cattle, it may very well had been, that the British would have broke camp and joined up with Chelmsford. After all the Zulu did not plan to attack that day.
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Henry Curling comment. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Henry Curling comment.   Henry Curling comment. EmptyThu Jul 02, 2009 9:20 pm

7 Miles that is quite away off. How long would it have taken the Zulu’s to cover this distance and would the Zulus have been forming up in to their traditional formation of the horns of the buffalo at that distance or would they have waited until they were nearer the camp.
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24th

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Henry Curling comment. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Henry Curling comment.   Henry Curling comment. EmptyFri Jul 03, 2009 5:28 pm

Could greed have led to the disaster? I was reading Curling’s Letter’s and in a letter to his Mother he writes. “That the Zulu had left 300 head of Cattle, and we should get £5.00 each”. So was it greed that pushed Raw to chase the cattle, unfortunately in the direction of the Zulu Army.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

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Henry Curling comment. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Henry Curling comment.   Henry Curling comment. EmptyFri Jul 03, 2009 6:09 pm

More like having a bit of fun chasing the Zulu boy herders. They though the Zulu Army was miles away. A jolly with the lads on horseback It was fate led them to the valley.
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Saul David 1879




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Henry Curling comment. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Henry Curling comment.   Henry Curling comment. EmptyFri Jul 03, 2009 9:24 pm

CTSG.
Sikali Horse under Lt. Raw was tasked with clearing scattered parties of Zulus that were out on the plateau.

Around midday Lt. Raw’s troop gave chase to some Zulus herd boys who were driving some cattle up a hill and on reaching the top, they looked down into a deep ravine. And sitting in silence was the main Zulu army.

S.D
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90th

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Henry Curling comment. Empty
PostSubject: cattle the prize   Henry Curling comment. EmptySat Jul 04, 2009 12:56 am

hi all.
in regard to 24th"s post , i read somewhere that all the cattle on the campaign that were captured and resold , the money was to be paid back to the troops, as in a way one recieves a bonus from work. but for some reason this never eventuated. No doubt plenty of shifty business behind the scenes.

cheers 90th.
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