Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records

Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

Ordered my copy, hopefully it will arrive next week.

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

bill cainan wrote:: Hi

It will eventually go on the shop site, but we don't tend to put them on until they actually arrive in the Museum.

Bill

Hello Mister Cainan,

Please, can you write a message ont this forum when it will go on the shopsite?
Thanks

Frédéric

Posts : 225 Join date : 2011-09-19

All

I will put it on the shop site, but not yet, as I'm on holiday for the next two weeks !

I've given the contact details above for those who don't want to wait the fortnight !

Bill

Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12

Bill your always on Holiday. Where are you this time.

Posts : 225 Join date : 2011-09-19

I wish I could say Zululand, but actually, it's the Orkneys !!!

Bill

Posts : 2593 Join date : 2009-04-24

There's nothing wrong with the Orkneys. Peaceful!!!!!! I hope your camping bill, groundsheet and canvas. agree

Not guest house, hotel ect.

Posts : 225 Join date : 2011-09-19

Nothing wrong with the Orkneys ? The German High Seas Fleet took one look at them and scuttled !!!!

Seriously though, a beautiful part of the country and, as you say, very peaceful.

Bill

Posts : 249 Join date : 2013-06-01

Nothing wrong with a hotel/guest house at your time of life lads!

Posts : 3362 Join date : 2009-03-03 Location : Devon

Just received my copy today You need to study mo

Posts : 527 Join date : 2009-02-28

1879Graves. Looking forward to your review.

Well done Julian.
Having just finished the Studies in the Zulu War chapter 2.
I would comment:

It encapsulates all the existing evidence and puts it into context. That with the new found sources puts the issue to rest. I would hope, knowing the gentleman he, is that David Payne would be gracious enough to concede that he and his associate were a tad of the mark in their responses.

Regards

Posts : 249 Join date : 2013-06-01

That settles it.
I would like to order Whybra's publication that shows Jenkins wha at the drift.
Please could someone post a link?
Springbok?
kopie:Salute:

kopie,

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

JY

Guest

Hi, iv'e just had a very interesting couple of hours
going over this thread from beginning to end.wow!
a psychiatrist would have a field day analyzing us.
fascinating stuff, my copy as they say is in the
post. cheers xhosa

Guest

oh, by the way i recall no mention of Norman Holme's
first work, copyrighted Heyward and Holme 1971 which
led to the excellent Silver Wreath, Norman did All
the heavy spade work and left us forever grateful. time
passes and other people are now enriching us with there
dedicated research. stay well Norman. xhosa

Les,

Don't forget the late Gordon Everson either, who in my opinion was the forgotten man of The Silver Wreath, you'll find his name in the preface.

JY

Guest

yeah JY i remember, i expect you knew him well.
as i sit here its freezing and rainy out.the missus
is watching cilla black for no apparent reason
to me.

so im thumbing through Hayward,
silver wreath, noble 24th, tavender, and of course
Julians, i see Jenkins everywhere. cheers Les

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

springbok9 wrote:: Well done Julian.
Having just finished the Studies in the Zulu War chapter 2.
I would comment:

It encapsulates all the existing evidence and puts it into context. That with the new found sources puts the issue to rest. I would hope, knowing the gentleman he, is that David Payne would be gracious enough to concede that he and his associate were a tad of the mark in their responses.

Regards

One opinion only! Doesn't prove anything. You say David Payne should concede. Why. You haven't posted anything that shows David Jenkins was at RD. it's just you agreeing with JW's publication.

Posts : 110 Join date : 2013-06-16

I need a copy of this !!

Guest

hiya john, i take it you have read vol 2,
mine should be here tomorrow and i am
going to reserve any opinion till its read
and inwardly digested.must say in any
event i expect to concur with Julian and
springbok.

Its a matter for you what you decide in
the final throes of this debate your own
stand. which i absolutely agree is your
call, i respect.

Drummerboy 16. i was going to tell you to
wake up! looking at the clock..get to bed!
Very Happy

. cheers xhosa

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

John only to be expected. Very Happy

Don't be fooled into buying it! If they are happy with JW publication so be it, end of.
The difference of opinion commenced on the forum, any evidence to show DJ was present at RD should be posted here. As far as I'm concerned nothing has changed.

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

DrummerBoy 16 wrote:: I need a copy of this !!

Yes you do!

Guest

impi, serious question..your at work, and you know nothing of these
events,and somebody highlights the pro's and con's,of the debate
and declares it deadlocked. and then invites you to consider two
statements. would you prefer.a, this man should not be recognized,
and then find out it was correct,denying him his rightful place, with
honour to be included in the roll. or.b, on the flimsiest evidence accord
him his laurels, then discover it was incorrect.what then. i feel the
evidence is way beyond circumstantial. any entrench dogmatic position
runs the risk of creating a vicious circle and could well be open to ridi-
cule. just my late night thoughts. cheers xhosa

Subject: Pte David Jenkins Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:14 am

John and Impi no real surprise here , obviously you two like burying your heads in the sand ! . Why dont you spend the 12 quid and buy the book , and then possibly , just possibly , you can have an informed opinion instead of a head in sand mentality . After all Impi it was you screaming for evidence at the outset wasnt it ? , well , what are you waiting for ? .
Buy it , read it , act on it ! . Shocked

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

90th you are a stupid boy. Joker

If JW has Proof, that David Jenking was there, post it. Don't expect people to pay for the privillage.

John/impi
Now that was a predictable reaction.

The evidence is there, not opinion, pure hard fact and source.

Don't expect that it will be published on the forum, JW is the only one with the rights to do that, and frankly why should he, the point has been proven, the fact that you cant/wont afford the money to educate yourself is really your problem.

Salute

Subject: David Jenkins ' Forgotten survivor of RD ' Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:55 am

. From memory you were one of the doubters yelling loudest for proof , well its available , dont expect others to pay , read and post the evidence YOU WISH TO SEE ! . We could post the evidence but more than likely you wouldnt believe it anyway

, it's the whole head in the sand thing ! , there's an old saying which I think you may understand .... People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones !!!!!!! Rolling Eyes

Stupid Boy Joker

90th wrote:: . , it's the whole head in the sand thing ! , there's an old saying which I think you may understand .... People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones !!!!!!!
Stupid Boy

Once apon a time an African Chief was given an ornate throne, being concerned that it could get stolen he stowed it away in his grass hut but during the night it fell down and crushed him. Ergo the saying above: "People that live in Grass houses should not stow thrones."
Sorry, moment of madness.
Damn its a beautiful day in Cape Town.

Salute

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

90th That special education you had, seems to have failed.

Anyway that's it from me on this topic, nothing as changed. Salute

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

90th

Subject: David Jenkins Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:22 am

Special education far outweighs NO education which to me is plain to see ! Rolling Eyes

Nothing has changed as you put it , is because YOU DONT want it to change , if you did , you'd fork out the 12 quid and read the evidence for yourself . Then you can give an educated opinion . I agree , enough of this pointless exercise . I think I hear the school bell

90th

Guest

hi all, " should not stow thrones".
Very Happy

, double damn its cold and
rain all the way this side. xhosa

Subject: David Jenkins Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:29 am

John are you going to part with the 12 quid ? , maybe you buy it , read it , and then send it to Impi ?. I'm sure there will be two less in the sandpit if you proceed with this plan of action .

, well lets hope so You need to study mo

90th

Another really interest article in the same issue is The Cochrane Accounts. Am I wrong or is this a reprint/update from a Doctoral Thesis by JW?

Subject: Pte David Jenkins Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:49 am

Hi 90th.

Anyone with a grain of sense can see that David Jenkins was at RD, and therefor deserves to be on the roll of honour, but it's pointless trying to explain that to stubborn people who will not change their attitude no matter how much evidence is provided to show that they are wrong. And it's nearly always the same people that continue to blame Col Durnford for iSandlwana, they cannot see the wood for the trees (or refuse to), because they don't like to admit that they are wrong. They seem to have the attitude that it's their opinion that is right and the rest are all wrong, they are the typical sort of people that will watch an almost fictional film and believe it to be real, truthful and factual, then when someone tells them that it was mostly fiction, they will argue that it wasn't, because they saw it for themselves at the flicks or on the telly. Shocked

Talk about trying to hammer rubber nails into steel plating. scratch

Subject: Jenkins Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:38 pm

Impi
For your information the new evidence re Jenkins was:
a 3rd letter from him after RD stating that he had been at RD, had not been at Isan, saying how he'd come to be there, etc.
a contemporary roll for RD (i.e. finding the evidence for the 1879 roll on which the 1929 Chard roll was based) which names two Jenkinses, one live, one kia
an exposition and proof that Chard's report was arranged chronologically thus proving that the two Jenkinses could not be one and the same man
a letter proving that Butler's models for her painting were ALL RD participants
a letter from Butler to Jenkins thanking him for sitting for her
numerous reports publicly demonstrating his acceptance as a participant in front of other RD participants
with all originals reproduced and transcripts published.
That's what's in the article. If you want to SEE it for yourself, you'll have to buy it.
I am not willing to publish any of it on the forum. That is not the way these things are done. The appropriate accepted method is to publish and then accept critiques from academic peers. I shall take exception to anyone who does publish anything from it without my permission.
Julian

Guest

well said,C'mon impi bend just a little.xhosa:idea:

Posts : 249 Join date : 2013-06-01

John Young wrote:: kopie,

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

JY

Thank you for this JY.
I can see now that Bill Cainan has already posted this link so apologies for not seeing it.
I am ordering my copy NOW!!!!!!
Have to admit, I have been in the camp who thinks Jenkins, David, was there, but am still not 100% convinced that he was. I am ordering the book now - no luck last weekend in town!
I am really looking forward to seeing the concrete evidence that he was present.
Previously, there was a (very strong) case based on circumstantial evidence; it will be nice to see some solid primary source evidence.

Posts : 249 Join date : 2013-06-01

Clarification please!

Should I be buying "Studies in the Zulu War 1879: Volume 2" if I want to read this latest Jenkins evidence?

Cheers
Kopie

Kopie
That is the volume in which it's just been published.

Posts : 249 Join date : 2013-06-01

Thank you Sir.

(Wow! Straight from the horse's mouth!)

Have to say, this is a fantastic forum and resource for all those interested in this campaign, with the actual, eminent, authors of these kinds of works communicating directly with us enthusiasts/amateur historians!

Thanks again.

I hope I get one of the signed copies!

Kopie
I can assure you that I am not eminent but I am actual. Coupland was eminent. Laband is eminent (and actual). Jackson is eminent (and actual). I hope you find the book interesting.

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

Ian Knight being the most!

John
Ian is also eminent. 'Most' is a difficult word to ascribe in this context. Dickens, Austen, Hardy, et al. were all eminent. It would be injudicious, and a little tactless, to say X was 'most' eminent. Certainly you would have had to have read them all before expressing such an opinion.

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

Unecessary comment deleted.

Posts : 2308 Join date : 2010-07-02 Age : 44

Mr M. Cooper wrote:: Hi 90th.

Anyone with a grain of sense can see that David Jenkins was at RD, and therefor deserves to be on the roll of honour, but it's pointless trying to explain that to stubborn people who will not change their attitude no matter how much evidence is provided to show that they are wrong. And it's nearly always the same people that continue to blame Col Durnford for iSandlwana, they cannot see the wood for the trees (or refuse to), because they don't like to admit that they are wrong. They seem to have the attitude that it's their opinion that is right and the rest are all wrong, they are the typical sort of people that will watch an almost fictional film and believe it to be real, truthful and factual, then when someone tells them that it was mostly fiction, they will argue that it wasn't, because they saw it for themselves at the flicks or on the telly.

Talk about trying to hammer rubber nails into steel plating.

Martin going by ths post, you have a copy of JW publication. Perhaps we could hear your observations

Posts : 110 Join date : 2013-06-16

Ordering mine !

Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France

impi wrote:: Unecessary comment deleted.

Many thanks Admin.
Frédéric

Subject: Pte David Jenkins Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:33 pm

impi.

There is little point in me giving you my observations, because even after all the evidence that has been offered so far, even by Julian himself explaining things to you, you still deny that Pte David Jenkins was a defender at RD.

It would seem that the only way that you (and a few others), will ever be convinced that DJ was at RD, and that Col Durnford was NOT to blame for iSandlwana, is for you to travel back in time via Dr Who's tardis and see for yourselves.

I would suggest that you buy Julian's book and read it for yourself, so that you can make your own 'observations', however, no doubt you will still deny that DJ was at RD.

Posts : 2558 Join date : 2009-04-06 Age : 61 Location : UK

Martin, doesn't have the book!

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