Latest topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 6:16 pm by John Young » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 22, 2024 6:53 am by John Young » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jul 20, 2024 12:17 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 18, 2024 11:11 am by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 4:33 pm by Julian Whybra » Private N/N John Robert Branch 90th Regiment and his discovered diary![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Mon Jul 15, 2024 8:53 pm by 1879graves » Private John Scott 24th Regiment a fugitive at large![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 12:06 pm by 1879graves » 90th foot sgt T. Collins 214![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 10:57 am by johnman » Baron Von Steitencron![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 10, 2024 3:10 pm by Julian Whybra » Sgt Joseph Windridge, Defender of Rorke's Drift - Memorial![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:15 am by 90th » Writing advice![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 4:04 pm by Julian Whybra » South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 07, 2024 9:30 am by rai » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN» Any nominal role of G Coy 2/24th regiment ![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:18 am by Wayne » Bassage Diary![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:31 am by Julian Whybra » Prior to Sihayo's Kraal ![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 9:19 am by 90th » British Fort Locations![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 3:40 am by 90th » Sergeant 1064 Tom Hick / Hicks G Company 2/24th Regiment![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 03, 2024 11:05 am by Julian Whybra » A Hungarian soldier in the Zulu War (?)![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:31 pm by Mr M. Cooper » Private 25B/279 Henry Sears Bugler E Company 24th Reg. KIA Isandlwana![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 27, 2024 1:07 pm by gardner1879 » Hamilton Browne's birthday![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jun 21, 2024 9:22 am by Julian Whybra » Zulu "Corps"![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 20, 2024 6:01 pm by Hobbes » Army Pay Department Personnel![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:49 am by Julian Whybra » Ntshingwayo birth date![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jun 16, 2024 11:37 am by Hobbes » Zibhebhu and Cetshwayo's family![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jun 05, 2024 9:11 pm by Julian Whybra » Smith's Store/Hotel![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jun 05, 2024 6:06 pm by Julian Whybra » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. ![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue Jun 04, 2024 5:20 pm by Julian Whybra » Shaka iLembe![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat Jun 01, 2024 1:27 pm by Jon84 » Bugler 1415 Thomas Finn / Flin 90th Regiment ![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat May 25, 2024 11:28 am by johnman » Inspector-General Evelyn Richard Hugh Pollard![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Tue May 14, 2024 10:13 am by ADMIN» Alfred Fairlie Henderson photographs.![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sat May 11, 2024 8:01 am by Julian Whybra » Fairlie's Native Police![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu May 02, 2024 9:12 pm by Hobbes |
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New topics | » The Pictorial World - March 15th 1879![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Yesterday at 1:13 pm by ben2000 » The lost diary of Pvt James Owen![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 25, 2024 12:03 pm by miklew » Last of the 24th at Isandhlwana![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 24, 2024 5:53 pm by miklew » What was the uniform of field marshals/generals in the zulu war?![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 21, 2024 12:30 pm by darthvaix » Henderson and the NNH at Rorke's Drift ![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Fri Jul 19, 2024 1:29 pm by SRB1965 » Capt. D. Hayes 1/3rd Regt., NNC![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Wed Jul 17, 2024 10:52 pm by Julian Whybra » The Wrecked Camp![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Sun Jul 14, 2024 8:51 am by 61MECH » The trashing of the Zulu monument to the brave warriors at Isandlawana March 12, 2024 has been blamed on scrap metal scavengers.![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:41 pm by ADMIN» The Goodwill Zulu Festival: Celebrating the Welsh and KwaZulu Natal Shared Heritage.![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/fa/empty.gif) Thu Jul 04, 2024 7:27 pm by ADMIN |
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| | Sergeant's Chevrons | |
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+3The1stLt Frank Allewell SergioD 7 posters | Author | Message |
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SergioD
![SergioD](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/849-96.jpg)
Posts : 401 Join date : 2012-03-27 Age : 62 Location : London/Herts
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:04 am | |
| Has anyone seen a colour picture or can describe the sergeant's stripes for a Sergeant in A Compant 2/24th and for the insignia that CSM Bourne would have worn on his sleeve . I am trying to finish a project and these are the missing pieces. I have seen many different illustrations but trying t work out what would be authentic,
Thanks
SergioD |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Frank Allewell
![Frank Allewell](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/32-19.jpg)
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:15 am | |
| Hi Sergio Page 66 of the 'Big Silver Book' has exactly what you are looking for. If you dont have it let me know and I will try and scan it for you.
Cheers |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SergioD
![SergioD](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/849-96.jpg)
Posts : 401 Join date : 2012-03-27 Age : 62 Location : London/Herts
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:20 am | |
| Thanks Springbok - no I dont have the Big Silver book - unless it is under a different title. Would be grateful if you could scan an image.
Cheers
Sergio |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Frank Allewell
![Frank Allewell](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/32-19.jpg)
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:26 am | |
| Hi Sergio Its actually 'Zulu" by Ian Knight, I think it was 90th christened it the Big Silver Book. Tsk typical Aussie. I will do a scan for you later today. Cheers |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SergioD
![SergioD](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/849-96.jpg)
Posts : 401 Join date : 2012-03-27 Age : 62 Location : London/Herts
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:55 am | |
| Thanks Springbok
Please be kind to 90th - I can only imagine how poor he and his compatriots must be feeling at the death of their sporting competitiveness .
Sergio:D
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| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Frank Allewell
![Frank Allewell](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/32-19.jpg)
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:02 pm | |
| Ahem ![Shocked](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_eek.gif) |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Frank Allewell
![Frank Allewell](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/32-19.jpg)
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:25 pm | |
| [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]Hope that works Sergio Photo from Zulu by Ian Knight |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Frank Allewell
![Frank Allewell](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/32-19.jpg)
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 4:26 pm | |
| Bugger, Ive even impressed myself. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SergioD
![SergioD](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/849-96.jpg)
Posts : 401 Join date : 2012-03-27 Age : 62 Location : London/Herts
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:03 pm | |
| Brilliant Thank you - interesting I thought that was a recruiting sergeants badge.
I think i can get hold of something similar which should work.
Thanks - much appreciated
Sergio |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | The1stLt
![The1stLt](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/198-80.jpg)
Posts : 285 Join date : 2010-09-06 Location : Kittery, Maine USA
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:40 pm | |
| Seigio this may also be of additional help..........The1stLt
http://www.amazon.com/British-Forces-Zululand-1879-Elite/dp/1855321092/ref=sr_1_1/181-2824980-2657714?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1375893243&sr=1-1&keywords=british+forces+in+zululand#reader_1855321092 |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Kenny
Posts : 589 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:56 pm | |
| Sergio
The images show a Colour Sergeant's rank in 1879 (note the badges are on right arm only) - this was worn by Colour Sergeant Frank Bourne at RD. A sergeant's rank would be just the three gold chevrons only. Nigel Green in 'Zulu' was incorrectly dressed. Colour Sergeant was equivalent to modern day - Company Sergeant Major. The rank of CSM (WO2) was only introduced at the beginning of WW1. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | kwajimu1879
![kwajimu1879](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/480-89.jpg)
Posts : 420 Join date : 2011-05-14
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:28 pm | |
| Sergio, Just to correct Kenny's posting. - Kenny wrote:
- The images show a Colour Sergeant's rank in 1879 (note the badges are on right arm only) - this was worn by Colour Sergeant Frank Bourne at RD. A sergeant's rank would be just the three gold chevrons only.
When worn in five-button frock a Colour Sergeant's insignia of rank was three gold chevrons surmounted by a crown. When wearing the seven-button tunic then the crossed flags would be worn. So many illustrators manage to get this wrong! I appreciate that you are asking about the 24th, and so as Kenny states Line Infantry Sergeants wore their chevrons on the right arm only, point down, above the elbow. There were exceptions, for example Light Infantry; Fusiliers & Highlanders where the chevrons were worn on both arms. Kenny or Bill, You might have to make a minor alteration to the figure in Zulu War Room. Take a look at Frank Bourne in the well-known group photograph, or Colour Sergeant Ross in G Company in his company's group photograph. No crossed flags. I'll dig out the chapter & verse reference for you as soon as I find it. I did post an image of Sergeants of the 21st R.S.F. for one Pascal's queries, but I can't access my Photobucket to bring it up again for you. Regards, 'Jimu |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | bill cainan
Posts : 225 Join date : 2011-09-19
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:57 pm | |
| Jimu
Yes, agree with you totally. I'll get round to correcting the mannequin in our AZW room one day soon - honest ! Mind you I have known quite a few Sergeant Majors who deliberately wear the wrong badge on some uniforms knowing full well no one will have the temerity to challenge them !!! Would you tell an RSM he's incorrectly dressed ? !!!!!
On another point - "Colour Sergeant" and "Warrant Officer 2" are RANKS, "Company Sergeant Major" is an APPOINTMENT. Even in today's army you would be surprised that there are people who are not aware of this distinction.
The exception to this in 1879 was the Regimental Sergeant Major who was known as The (THE) Sergeant Major - both a rank AND an appointment - literally the major (or senior) sergeant in the Battalion/Regiment. Today the RANK would be Warrant Officer 1, and the APPOINTMENT would be Regimental Sergeant Major.
Bill |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Guest Guest
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:24 am | |
| https://s1297.photobucket.com/user/xhosa2000/library/?sort=3&page=1 |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Guest Guest
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:27 am | |
| Any body is free to look, download, i will delete,in aprox 24hrs.. cheers xhosa2000 |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | 90th
![90th](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/22-38.jpg)
Posts : 10890 Join date : 2009-04-07 Age : 68 Location : Melbourne, Australia
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Sergeant's Chevrons Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:36 am | |
| Hi Springy . As you are aware I'm a fan of '' The Big Silver Book '' . I think I may have christened it as such ! . It's very descriptive dont you think ? . Hi Sergio . I was very happy up until I heard the weather report for the 5th day at Old Trafford ! ![No](/users/1313/16/75/50/smiles/1068807785.gif) . I know this is off topic but easier to reply to the early comments on the thread ! . 90th. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | Kenny
Posts : 589 Join date : 2013-05-07 Location : Brecon
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:40 am | |
| Serio,
As Jimu points out, this image posted by xhosa2000 is incorrect for the 5-button frock - no crossed flags (Colour badge) for Colour Sergeant - just crown above three gold chevrons. |
| ![Go down](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | | SergioD
![SergioD](https://2img.net/u/1313/16/75/50/avatars/849-96.jpg)
Posts : 401 Join date : 2012-03-27 Age : 62 Location : London/Herts
![Sergeant's Chevrons Empty](https://2img.net/i/empty.gif) | Subject: Re: Sergeant's Chevrons Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:48 am | |
| Thanks guys as usual your knowledge and willingness to share it is outstanding.
Any one know whgere I could source a suitable crown badge I assume it is embroidered. i have been able to source crossed flags with a QE2 badge but would like to get a Victorian crown for authenticty.
Thanks
Sergio
PS Would a CSM have worn a crimson sash with the five button coat or a cross belt - see the two different pictures on this thread |
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