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diddles



Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-10-09

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PostSubject: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyWed Oct 09, 2013 11:58 pm

Hi, I am a new user and not sure if anyone can help me, but I thought I would ask hoping for information.
My Great Grandfather, Arthur Snow was suppose to have fought in the battle of Basutoland.
He served with the 17th of foot and was there 1879-1881. The 17th of foot was part of the Leicestershire Regiment.
Can anyone offer information about this battle, how many British Soldiers fought there, how long it lasted, did the 17th of foot come under another name. There does not appear to be a service record for him.
Cheers
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Guest
Guest



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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyThu Oct 10, 2013 12:04 am

Hiya diddles, welcome,you will receive
information. cheers xhosa2000
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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7077
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 52
Location : Down South.

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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyThu Oct 10, 2013 12:19 am

Welcome to the forum, what information do you have in him at present.

Below we have listed a Sergeant A. Snow 17th Reg of Foot Who attended the.



ANNUAL REUNION.

SPEECH EY THE GOVERNOR.

The annual reunion tendered by the   Federal Government to the Naval and   Military Active Service Veterans resident in South Australia was he'd at the Prince of Wales Hotel on Saturday after-

noon. The Veterans were first lined up  

in Angas-street, where they were inspected by His Excellency the Governor     and Brigadier-General Forsyth. The

roll call was as follows:-T. Arnold, Color- Sergeant 4th Foot, Zulu War, 1879. G.

Ashby, Corporal, Frontier Light Horse,   Kaffir and Zulu Wars, 1877-8-9. E. Ham- bridge, Lieutenant, Cape Mounted Yeo-   manry, Moerassi Campaign, 1879. W. W.

Ball, Warrant Officer, 11th Hussars, Egypt,   1882, and World's War, 1914-18. E. Bar- ker, 14th Foot, New Zealand. L. Black,

Corporal, 72nd Highlanders (Seaforths),   Afghanistan, 1878; Egypt, 1832-3; Black Mountain Expedition, 1888; 2nd Boer War.

W. P. Black, Lieutenant, Royal Marine  

Light Infantry. Egypt, 1882; World's War,

1914-17. H. A. Braham, Royal Navy, Abyssinia. 1868; Afghanistan, 1878. H. J. Burton, Royal Navy, Egypt, 1882 T. J. Butterworth, Sergeant, 32nd Light   Infantry (Cornwall's); Egypt, 1884-5; World's War, 1914-1917. J. Cook, Royal Navy, New Zealand, 1863. R. Creswel, Corporal, 14th Foot, New Zealand. E. W. Dawes, Sergeant, 1st Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, Zulu War, 1879. W. De Passey, Major, 17th Lancers, Zulu War, 1879; 2nd Boer'War. A. Fabri,   Royal Navy, Egypt, 1882. M. Fillmore, Corporal, Cape Mounted Rifles, Basuto- land, 1880-1. W. Freeman, Naval Trans- port Corps, Crimea. J. B. Fry, sen., Royal Navy, Baltic. L. R. Gordon, Lieu- tenant, Burrowes' Horse, Zulu War, 1879. H. W. Griggs, Sergeant, 9th Lancers, Af- ghanistan, 1878-90. T. Hanley, Warrant officer, Gordon Highlanders, Afghanistan, 1878, 1st and 2nd Boer Wars. J. Hearn, Warrant-Officer, Royal Artillery, Egypt, 1882-3, 2nd Boer War. E. H. Hewett, Corporal, 12th Lancers, Afghanistan, 1878- 80. J. Holt, Trooper, Baker's Horse, Zulu War; Basutoland and Transkei 1880- 1. W. Isley, Army Works Corps, Cri- mea. T. H. Kelliy, Lieutenant, 18th Foot, Afghanistan, 1878-80. J. Kerr, North   umberland Fusiliers, Afghanistan, 1873. C. Key, Corporal 2nd Scottish Horse, Soudan, 2nd Boer War, Zulu, World's War, 1917. G. Knaggs, Corporal, 14th Foot, New-Zealand. W. LaFolley, Lance- Corpora!, Black Watch, Ashantee, 1874. T. Lane, 14th Foot. New Zealand. J. Madden, Sergeant, 17th Foot, Afghanistan, 1878-80. R. Marshall, 57th Foot, New Zealand. C. H. Martin, Color-Sergeant, 4th Rifle Brigade, Africa, 1877-8; Afghan War. 1878-9: Egypt, 1882: 2nd Boer War.

P. Molloy, Corporal, Black Watch, Egypt,   1882-4; 2nd Boer War: World's War. 1914- 17. J. Moore, Captain, Roval Navy, Crimea and Baltic. F. J. Mudd, Cor- poral, ..th Rifles, Zulu War. 1879; and 1st and 2nd Boer Wars. P. Nicholson, Cor- poral. R.A. Burmah, Bechuanaland, and 2nd Boer War (Defence of Kimberley). J. K. Paul. Major, D.S.O., 107th Regiment, Egypt, 1882: Eastern Soudan, 1884-5; Hamara Campaign, 1888: 2nd Boer War, 1899-1900: World's War. 1916-7. F. Pinard, Francs Tireurs, Franco-Prussian War, 1870; J. Reilly, 90th Perthshire Light Infantry, Zulu War, 1879: C. E. S. Rose, Serjeant-Major, 3rd Waikato Regi- ment. New Zealand. D. Sadler, Corporal, 51st Foot, Afghanastan. 1878. J. Shillum, Royal Horse Artillery. Afghanistan, 1878-80. H. Simpsoon, 2nd Royal Fusillers, Afghanistan, 1878-8O. A. Snow, Sergeant, 17th Foot, Basutoland, and Transkei, 1880-1. J. Talbot. D.C.M., 65th Foot, New Zealand. J. G. M. Taverner, Ser- geant, 2nd Battalion, Royal North Lan- cashire. Afghanistan, 1878-80. I. Thomas, 11th Hussars, Abysinia, 18..8. G. Thompson, Sergeant 1st Madras Fusiliers, Mutiny (Relief and Defence of Lucknow). R. Walker, Land Transport Corps, Crimea. R. Watson, 38th Foot, Crimea and Mutiny. J. West, Coldstream Guards. Egypt. 1882. W. Wilson, 49th Foot, Crimea. W. R.   Wright, 7th Hussars, Egypt, 1882-4-5.

At the banquet the Military Comman- dant presided. After the loyal toast was honored the Chairman proposed, "His Ex- cellency the Governor." He said it was needless for him to recapitulate his Excel- lency's good qualities: They honored him because he was the representative of his Majesty the King. They were all soldiers still, and they honored his Excellencv because he was a soldier, and because of his personal worth. (Applause.) They more than esteemed him; they loved

him". (Applause.)

The Governor responded. In sub-   mitting ''The Veterans," he said it was a great pleasure for him to come among men who, like himself, had spent the best part of their life with the colors. Those days, when each of them said his regiment was the best in the service, were the hap- piest of their lives. (Applause.) That was the fifth occasion on which he had been present at their annual luncheon, and four of them had fallen within the war period. During that time several of their comrades had passed to the great beyond, and they honored their memory that day. They had obeyed the call of country. The Empire now was at the most critical stage in the greatest crisis in its history, and if the nation were true to itself it would win through with flying colors. (Applause.) The victory would only be won by strength of nerve and temper, and it would bring with it the freedom of the world, in- cluding that of unfortunate Russia. There was nothing which Germany had estab- lished that victory might not cast down, and nothing that Germany had cast down that it might not restore. To-day they were linked up with all the free democra- cies of the world, and an alliance like that

must win victory in the end. German   spread-eagleism had to go. The nation was called upon to bear and suffer much, but no more than what their forefathers had suffered for their freedom and secu-

rity. The dial of the clock of destiny now pointed to the western front, and it was there that big battalions, as in the days of Napoleon, counted. They therefore had to put every ounce of their strength into the struggle, in men, money, and materials. (Applause.) A fortnight ago he started his 41st year of service, and he could therefore count himself as a Veteran without being egotistical. (Hear, hear.) He urged them to do their utmost to get

recruits.

Corporal Ashby, who responded, said     they knew mistakes had been made, but as Britons the men in the army had held on till those mistakes had been rectified. There had been reverses, but the spirit

of the race was shown in the determined

manner in which they had turned. (Ap- plause.)

Captain J. Moore, R.N., said he felt proud at having been requested to respond on behalf of the naval veterans. The British Fleet was the grandest navy that ever floated upon the sea.

In proposing the toast of "Our Allies," Senator J. Newland (chairman of the State Recruiting Committee), said more than half the Government of the world were engaged in the present struggle, and the people of the nations at war with the Allies numbered 1,405,000,000. Aus- tralia had done much, but there was much

more that she could do.

The Minister for Home and Territories (Hon. P. McM. Glynn), replying, said throughout the vicissitudes of the years and the ever-changing relations of nations, France had never allowed her temper to be affected solely by the material aspect of things. Her old and chivalrous spirit, her sincere faith in Hie unseen Provi- dence that sustained, settled, and restored, was active again, and had been mani- fested by many of her sons aud daughters in the cleansing trials of these days. The United States, their latest, and, in re- sources, most powerful, Ally, was true to the lofty and liberal   temper of the basic declaration of 1776. The United States was coming slowly, it might be, but resolutely, to the front. Transport was the great need. She had now ..... shipyards, 700 ways, and half a million of men, who should produce 1,600 ships. By the end of the year the States would have built about 3,000,000 tons of ships. (Applause.)

'"Departed Comrades'' was submitted by

Lieutenant Gordon.

The Mitcham Camp Band, under Ser-   geant-Major Elliott, rendered selections.

At the termination of the dinner, the chairman of the Corps of Veterans (Mr. W. J. P. Giddings) presented Mr. J. Richardson with an inscribed gold watch, on behalf of the veterans, in recognition of the good work he had done for them.

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littlehand

littlehand

Posts : 7077
Join date : 2009-04-24
Age : 52
Location : Down South.

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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyThu Oct 10, 2013 12:22 am

SOUTH AUSTRALIAN CORPS OF VETERANS. 1918. ROLL CALL. 55 men.
“Advertiser” newspaper. 27 May 1918. (may need correcting).
1....Arnold, T., Color Sergeant 4th Foot, Zulu War 1879.
2....Ashby, G., Corporal, Frontier Light Horse, Kaffir and Zulu Wars, 1877-8-9.
3....Bambridge, E., Lieut., Cape Mounted Yeo- manry, Moerassi Campaign, 1879.
4....Ball, W.W., Warrant Officer, 11th Hussars, Egypt, 1882,
............and World War, 1914-18.
5....Barker, E., 14th Foot, New Zealand.
6....Black, L., Corporal, 72nd Highlanders (Seaforths),
.......Afghanistan 1878; Egypt 1882-3, Black Mountain Expedition, 1888; 2nd Boer War.
7....Black, W.P., Lieut., Royal Marine Light Infantry. Egypt 1882;
.............and World War, 1914-17.
8....Braham, H.A., Royal Navy,Abyssinia. 1868; Afghanistan, 1878.
9....Burton, H.J., Royal Navy, Egypt, 1882.
10..Butterworth, T.J., Sgt., 32nd Light Infantry (Cornwall's) Egypt 1884-5,
............and World War, 1914-17.
11..Cook, J., Royal Navy, New Zealand, 1863.
12..Creswel, R., Corporal, 14th Foot, New Zealand.
13..Dawes, E.W., Sergeant, 1st Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, Zulu War, 1879.
14..De Passey, W., Major, 17th Lancers, Zulu War, 1879; 2nd Boer War.
15..Fabri, A., Royal Navy, Egypt, 1882.
16..Fillmore, M. Corporal, Cape Mounted Rifles, Basutoland, 1880-1.
17..Freeman, W., Naval Transport Corps, Crimea.
18..Fry, J.B., sen., Royal Navy, Baltic.
19..Gordon, L.R. Lieut., Burrowes' Horse, Zulu War, 1879.
20..Griggs, H.W., Sergeant, 9th Lancers, Afghanistan, 1878-90.
21..Hanley, T., Warr/ off., Gordon Highlanders, Afghanistan 1878, 1st and 2nd Boer Wars.
22..Hearn, J., Warrant-Officer, Royal Artillery, Egypt, 1882-3, 2nd Boer War.
23..Hewett, E.H., Corporal, 12th Lancers, Afghanistan, 1878-80.
24..Holt, J., Trooper, Baker's Horse, Zulu War; Basutoland and Transkei 1880-1.
25..Isley, W., Army Works Corps, Crimea.
26..Kelly, T.H., Lieutenant, 18th Foot, Afghanistan, 1878-80.
27..Kerr, J., Northumberland Fusiliers, Afghanistan, 1873.
28. Key, C., Corpl 2nd Scottish Horse, Soudan, 2nd Boer War, Zulu,
..............and World War, 1917.
29..Knaggs, G., Corporal, 14th Foot, New-Zealand.
30..LaFolley, W., Lance-Corpora!, Black Watch, Ashantee, 1874.
31..Lane, T., 14th Foot. New Zealand.
32..Madden, J., Sergeant, 17th Foot, Afghanistan,1878-80.
33..Marshall, R., 57th Foot, New Zealand.
34..Martin, C.H., Color-Sergeant, 4th Rifle Brigade,
..............Africa 1877-8; Afghan War. 1878-9: Egypt, 1882: 2nd Boer War.
35..Molloy, P., Corporal, Black Watch, Egypt 1882-4; 2nd Boer War,
..............and World War. 1914-17.
36..Moore, J., Captain, Roval Navy, Crimea and Baltic.
37..Mudd, F.J., Corporal, ..th Rifles, Zulu War. 1879; and 1st and 2nd Boer Wars.
38..Nicholson, P., Corporal. R.A. Burmah, Bechuanaland, and 2nd Boer War (Kimberley).
39..Paul, J.K., Major, D.S.O., 107th Regiment, Egypt, 1882: Eastern Soudan, 1884-5;
.............Hamara Campaign, 1888: 2nd Boer War, 1899-1900:
.............and World War. 1916-7.
40..Pinard, F., Francs Tireurs, Franco-Prussian War, 1870.
41..Reilly, J., 90th Perthshire Light Infantry, Zulu War, 1879.
42..Rose, C.E.S., Serjeant-Major, 3rd Waikato Regiment. New Zealand.
43..Sadler, D., Corporal, 51st Foot, Afghanastan. 1878.
44..Shillum, J., Royal Horse Artillery. Afghanistan, 1878-80.
45..Simpson, H., 2nd Royal Fusillers, Afghanistan, 1878-8O.
46..Snow, A., Sergeant,17th Foot, Basutoland, and Transkei,1880-1.
47..Talbot, J., D.C.M., 65th Foot, New Zealand.
48..Taverner, J.G.M., Sergt, 2nd Battalion, Royal North Lancashire. Afghanistan, 1878-80
49..Thomas, I., 11th Hussars, Abysinia, 18..8.
50..Thompson, G., Sergeant 1st Madras Fusiliers, Mutiny (Lucknow).
51..Walker, R., Land Transport Corps, Crimea.
52..Watson, R., 38th Foot, Crimea and Mutiny.
53..West, J., Coldstream Guards. Egypt. 1882.
54..Wilson, W., 49th Foot, Crimea.
55..Wright, W.R., 7th Hussars, Egypt, 1882-4-5.
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littlehand

littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyThu Oct 10, 2013 12:31 am

Basutoland was in southern Africa. The mountainous and largely arid land that came to be Basutoland was populated by the San until the end of the 16th century. From then Bantu-speaking tribes began to migrate into the area, gradually forming various groups including the Basotho.In the nineteenth century, the Basutoland area became particularly populated as tribes sought to avoid the rampant Zulu in the area.
From around 1820, a local chief, Moshoeshoe, consolidated the scattered people to resist invaders and became King Moshoeshoe I in the 1830s. He established a fortress capital at the inaccessible Thaba Bosiu in the tableland north of the Maloti in 1824.

During Moshoeshoe's reign there were a series of clashes with the Boers of the Orange Free State, the British and with other native tribes. Despite a certain amount of success in battle and Moshoeshoe's skillful diplomacy, the kingdom lost considerable territory. A treaty had been signed with the Boer from Griqualand in 1843 and an agreement was made with the British in 1853 following a minor war. However, the disputes with the Boer over land were revived in 1858 and more seriously in 1865. Mainly due to superior armament, the Boers had a number of military successes, killing possibly 1500 Basotho soldiers, and annexed an expanse of arable land which they were able to retain following a treaty at Thaba Bosiu. In order to protect his people, Moshoeshoe appealed to the British for assistance, and in March 1868 the land was placed under British protection and the Boers were ordered to leave. A treaty was signed at Aliwal in 1869 between the British and the Boers defining the boundaries of the protectorate, the arable land west of the Caledon River remained in Boer hands and is referred to as the Lost or Conquered Territory. Moshoeshoe died in 1870.

In 1871 the protectorate was annexed by the Cape Colony. The Basotho resisted the British and in 1879 a southern chief, Moirosi, rose in revolt. The rising was crushed and Moirosi was killed in the fighting. The Basotho then began to fight amongst themselves over the division of Moirosi's lands. The British extended the Cape Peace Preservation Act of 1878 to cover Basutoland and attempted to disarm the natives. Much of the colony rose in revolt in the Gun War (1880-1881), incurring significant casualties upon colonial British forces sent to subdue it. An 1881 peace treaty failed to quell sporadic fighting.

Cape Town's inability to control the territory led to its return to crown control in 1884 as the Territory of Basutoland. The colony was bound by the Orange River Colony, Natal Colony, and Cape Colony. It was divided into seven administrative disricts - Berea, Leribe, Maseru, Mohales Hock, Mafeteng, Qacha's Nek and Quthing. The colony was ruled by the British Resident Commissioner, who worked through the Pitso (national assembly) of hereditary native chiefs under one paramount chief. Each chief ruled a ward within the territory. The first paramount chief was Lerothodi, the son of Moshoeshoe. During the Second Boer War the colony remained neutral.

When the Union of South Africa was founded in 1910 the colony was still controlled by the British and moves were made to transfer it to the Union. However the people of Basutoland opposed this and when the South African Nationalist party put its apartheid policies into place the possibility of annexation was halted. In 1959, a new constitution gave Basutoland its first elected legislature. This was followed in April 1965 with a general election. It became independent as Lesotho on October 4th 1966.
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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyThu Oct 10, 2013 12:49 am

littlehand,you was all over that.top post.
xhosa
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diddles



Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-10-09

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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyThu Oct 10, 2013 1:16 am

Thankyou so much for the info. The Sargeant Snow mentioned was my Grand Father.
The info I have on him is as follows:
He was born in England about 1853, married Maria Scannell in 1876 and had a child in 1877.
He served in South Africa and had a daughter there in Wellington in 1881.
We know that he had more children in Australia from 1886.
When he arrived in South Aftica and arrived in Australia is unknown.
Would love to know more of his involement in the conflict and whether he was a casulty.
Cheets
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90th

90th

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Age : 65
Location : Melbourne, Australia

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PostSubject: Basutoland Conflict    Basutoland Conflict EmptyThu Oct 10, 2013 6:34 am

Littlehand I agree with xhosa , you were all over that in no time ! , You arent a relative as well are you ?? . Excellent work that man !
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impi

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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyThu Oct 10, 2013 9:20 pm

I expect he would have been involved in the Moirosi strong hold incident.
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diddles



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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyThu Oct 10, 2013 9:31 pm

Thankyou. Love this site.
Diddles
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PostSubject: Basutoland Conflict A. Snow   Basutoland Conflict EmptyThu Oct 10, 2013 10:51 pm

Impi I doubt he was in the Morosi conflict as it was in 1879 , Littlehand's post states Snow was involved during the 1880 -81 campaign !. You may need to further investigate if Snow , as you expect , was at the Morosi campaign / campaigns . You need to study mo . I will check the medal roll for 77-78-79 .
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PostSubject: Basutoland Conflict    Basutoland Conflict EmptyThu Oct 10, 2013 10:56 pm

Impi I checked the 77-78-79 medal roll and there were no troops from the 17th Foot in Sth Africa at that time .
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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyMon Oct 14, 2013 2:26 am

He has become a bit of a mystery man.
It would seem any records for him are not available or lost.
Really appreciate everyones efforts in helping me.
Diddles
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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyMon Oct 14, 2013 8:50 am

We had a situation with a guy, James Miller. Not much on him, about a year later loads of stuff turn up.
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diddles



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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyMon Oct 14, 2013 8:57 am

That's reassuring. I will keep my fingers crossed.
He had 3 sons who served in WW1 so seems the Military ran in the family.
Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyMon Oct 14, 2013 8:20 pm

Don't supposed you have the Basuto medal.
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diddles



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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyMon Oct 14, 2013 8:48 pm

No, from the information from The South Australian Corps of Veterans taken from Trove Newspaper he was supposed to have received the Cape of Good Hope General Service Medal. Reading more today he fought in Transkei as well as Basutoland 1880-1881. That is all I have unfortunately.
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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyMon Oct 14, 2013 11:25 pm

Interesting.

We have a "Snow, A., Cpl. Served in the Paarl Burghers. Basutoland-Transkei"




http://www.northeastmedals.co.uk/britishguide/cape_good_hope_medal_roll_p_s.htm
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyMon Oct 14, 2013 11:37 pm

Possibly barking up the wrong tree, but its a journey anyway! 

Does anyone have any information on the 

"The Paarl Burghers unit" 

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diddles



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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyTue Oct 15, 2013 12:00 am

Gosh, could it be? We know a daughter was born in Wellington in 1881.
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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyTue Oct 15, 2013 9:41 pm

Diddles. Did he have a middle name.
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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyTue Oct 15, 2013 9:50 pm

Not in any of the information I have.
He is just Arthur on his marriage certificate.
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PostSubject: Re: Basutoland Conflict   Basutoland Conflict EmptyTue Oct 15, 2013 9:58 pm

"Transkei.  Awarded to all troops, mainly local units, employed in the field from the 13 September 1880 to the 15 May 1881 for operations in Griqualand East and Tembuland.  The dispute stemmed from the natives taking up arms against settlers in the districts of Maclear, Matateile, Qumbu and Tsolo.

Basutoland.  The clasp was awarded for operations from the 13 September 1880 to 27 April 1881 and stemmed from the order to hand in firearms.  Some tribes complied and were then immediately attacked by their opponents.  In September 1880 white officials were attacked and troops were mobilised to quell the fighting.  Colonel Carrington and Brigadier-General Clarke undertook operations in the Mafeteng area and this concluded with an armistice in February 1881.  Skirmishing continued for off and on for a number of years between 1882-1884 and eventually Basutoland was declared a Crown Colony in March 1884."


Snow A Corporal CGHGSM (2) Basutoland Transkei Source: Roll of the CGHGSM Paarl Burghers

Snow A B Insp Captain CGHGSM (1) Bechuanaland. CPD2 Source: Roll of the CGHGSM Cape Police
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