Joseph Hurley - Army Service Corps

Hello. I am a newcomer to your excellent site and wondered if you are able to help me.

I recently accessed my great grandfather Joseph Hurley’s army service record on ancestry.co.uk, misfiled (he died in 1892) in the First World War ‘Burnt Records’ of TNA WO363.

He enlisted in the Army Service Corps (Regimental Number T1740) as a lad at Chatham on 9 February 1878.
His Military History Sheet for Service at Home and Abroad states:

Home 9 Feb 1878 to 2 June 1879
South Africa 3 June 1879 to 24 May 1880
Home 25 May 1880

Under medals and decorations it looks like it says South Africa Medal with Clasp and researching further on ancestry under UK Military Campaign Medal and award rolls 1793-1949 I found a ‘yes’ against the column headed ‘whether engaged against the Zulu’s in 1879’.

It looks like he could not have been in South Africa until late in the conflict. How can I find out where he was and in what actions he took part? Also it would be interesting to know his ports of embarkation and disembarkation in UK and South Africa and the dates he arrived in and left South Africa.

I cannot find any trace of him on the 1881 census (perhaps he was in Ireland)? He is listed on the 1891 census in Colchester District Cavalry and Artillery Barracks as a Staff Sergeant, Collar Maker.

Any advice you can give would be most welcome.

welcome hurleyburley, apt name.
i'm sure you will receive some
input. stick with us.
cheers xhosa2000

Hi HurleyBurley.
Firstly welcome to the forum , I've checked the ' South African War Medal 1877-78-79 , The Medal Roll ' by D.R.Forsyth and yes your ancestor is listed in the Army Service Corps , and was entitled to the Medal with 1879 Clasp . My guess is more than likely he was involved in Wagon / Convoy duties between the Forts / Outposts etc .
Cheers 90th

In case you werent aware the T in his regimental number is to signify Transport as distinct from the Commissarat (C) or Ordanance sections of the Army Service Corps.

So 90th is probably correct in his statement - he could have been involved any ware in Zululand - transporting supplies etc

Reagards

Sergio

HurleyBurley,
 
Welcome to the forum.  I don’t know very much about the Army Service Corps., but while conducting research on the Royal Marine Battalion         (1879) I stumbled over a little bit of information which may be of help to you.  
 
The Marine Battalion embarked at Portsmouth on the troop ship HMS Jumna on 4 June 1879 bound for South Africa.  There were also 6 officers and about 182 men of the Army Service Corps.  Included in this group was a detachment of Army Service Corps from Chatham, numbering about 60 of all ranks who had received their orders on 2nd June.  They left Chatham on the 3rd June and arrived in Portsmouth.  This coincides with the last date of his home service and first date of his South Africa service.  “Jumna” departed Portsmouth, and after stopping at Plymouth to pick up 4 more companies of Royal Marines, steamed for South Africa.  On the 7th of July 1879 the Jumna arrived at Simon’s Bay where she received orders from Sir Garnet Wolseley to remain.  Around the 19th of July Wolseley, writing from Port Durnford sent a telegram for the Army Service Corps “from Jumna ordered here with 90 days supplies for 2nd Division.”  The 2nd Division had just won the Battle of Ulundi, and would for the next couple of months be involved in the search for, and capture of, Cetewayo.
 
I don’t know for a fact that your grandfather was on “Jumna,” but the dates certainly match, and a unit of A.S.C. from Chatham went to South Africa on board her.
 
By the way Joseph Hurley’s medal was sold at Jager’s Medals and Memorabilia.  Below is a link to the site.
 
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
 
Jager is a member of this forum, so hopefully he will see your post, and possibly add a little more information on your great grandfather.
 
 
Petty Officer Tom

Petty Officer Tom wrote:

HurleyBurley,
 
Welcome to the forum.  I don’t know very much about the Army Service Corps., but while conducting research on the Royal Marine Battalion         (1879) I stumbled over a little bit of information which may be of help to you.  
 
The Marine Battalion embarked at Portsmouth on the troop ship HMS Jumna on 4 June 1879 bound for South Africa.  There were also 6 officers and about 182 men of the Army Service Corps.  Included in this group was a detachment of Army Service Corps from Chatham, numbering about 60 of all ranks who had received their orders on 2nd June.  They left Chatham on the 3rd June and arrived in Portsmouth.  This coincides with the last date of his home service and first date of his South Africa service.  “Jumna” departed Portsmouth, and after stopping at Plymouth to pick up 4 more companies of Royal Marines, steamed for South Africa.  On the 7th of July 1879 the Jumna arrived at Simon’s Bay where she received orders from Sir Garnet Wolseley to remain.  Around the 19th of July Wolseley, writing from Port Durnford sent a telegram for the Army Service Corps “from Jumna ordered here with 90 days supplies for 2nd Division.”  The 2nd Division had just won the Battle of Ulundi, and would for the next couple of months be involved in the search for, and capture of, Cetewayo.
 
I don’t know for a fact that your grandfather was on “Jumna,” but the dates certainly match, and a unit of A.S.C. from Chatham went to South Africa on board her.
 
By the way Joseph Hurley’s medal was sold at Jager’s Medals and Memorabilia.
 
Jager is a member of this forum, so hopefully he will see your post, and possibly add a little more information on your great grandfather.

Petty Officer Tom

Many thanks Xhosa2000, 90th, SegioD and Petty Officer Tom.

Wow. Those outbound dates seem to be too much of a coincidence not to fit with the little I know about my great grandfather. Are you able to point me in the direction of where you stumbled on the ASC information while researching the Royal Marine Battalion?

Coincidentally I visited the Royal Marines Museum in Portsmouth last year as another family member served in the Royal Marine Light Infantry during WW1.

Presumably HMS Jumna would have sailed from Simon’s Bay to Port Durnford with the ASC and their 90 days supplies for 2nd Division. Any idea when they would have arrived?

I was amazed to see that Joseph Hurley’s medal was still in existence and had been sold at Jager’s and that offers me another line of investigation. It would be fascinating to know where Joseph’s medal has journeyed since his death in 1892.

Best wishes

HurleyBurley

Hurley-Burley,
 
Regarding you question “are you able to point me in the direction of where you stumbled on the ASC information?” the information on the Army Service Corps was just a couple of sentences in larger newspaper articles on the long overdue departure of the Royal Marine Battalion.  (I have sent you a PM.)  
 
“Presumably HMS Jumna would have sailed from Simon’s Bay to Port Durnford with the ASC and their 90 days supplies for 2nd Division.  Any idea when they would have arrived?”     Jumna did not get any further than Simon’s Bay before it was halted there under orders from Garnet Wolseley.  The ASC would have taken another ship.  I found no mention of it though.  As to when they would have arrived, I can only speculate – probably around the later part of July.
 
 
Petty Officer Tom

Tom kindly pointed me to this post, I did indeed have the medal in stock last year although could find no service record – I know why now

I never give away the buyers details without their permission, however I’m happy to forward messages so a buyer can get back if they want. Saying that they won’t have any more info on your Great Grandfather I guess

Only thing I could add I guess would be to send you pics of the medal that I have on file. If you PM me your email I’ll get you what you need

Jager1

Jager1,
 
Thank you for for your response.  Team work, and sharing information - that is what make this forum so great.  I am sure Hurley-Burley is going to enjoy seeing his great grandfather's medal.
 
 
Petty Officer Tom

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
The Jumna.
John Young Collection

JY

A great picture of "Jumna" from "our man with a photograph for every occassion," John Young.
 
Thank you John.  
 
 
Petty Officer Tom

Hi John .
Excellent photo .  
Cheers 90th .

Got to agree with my mate 90th, excellent photo John.

Just look at that 'ram bow', this was the classic shape of the old warship. If I remember correctly, this was the shape of the bow on the cruiser H.M.S Hawke that inflicted the damage on the very large passenger liner R.M.S Olympic (older sister of the ill fated Titanic). Hawke made a very large gash near the stern of Olympic which resulted in her being out of service for some time, however, Olympic went on to serve during WW1 (I think she sank a German U-boat), and remained the only one left of the large Olympic class liners, the two others (Titanic and Britannic) both being sunk, one by an iceberg (Titanic), the other (Britannic), by a mine while serving as an hospital ship during WW1. Olympic became what people called 'The Grand Old Lady', shame she was scrapped, she would have made a very interesting piece of history these days with all the interest in her sister the ill fated Titanic.

Thanks John.