Film Zulu: Colour Sergeant Bourne: It's a miracle. Lieutenant John Chard: If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle. Colour Sergeant Bourne: And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it.
Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting
5 posters
Author
Message
Guest Guest
Subject: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:50 pm
Sir Garnet Wolseley said of Lt Nevill Coghill and Lt Teignmouth Melvill. It is monstrous making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting. says admin via the homepage banner! Wolseley had a lot to say about everybody including..Harward and Carey.. So if we have to give Melvill the benefit, (no one witnessed him being ordered to carry the colours to safety ) and as he was Adjutant was he not duty bound to stay and share his mens fate be it good or more importantly bad! to save the colours when all goes pear shaped is a tradition the British had been accustomed to! the 24th more than most! but it does NOT require an officer, anyone would do! Coghill seems to have bolted, pure and simple in my opinion!
There you go Pete, lets see if there are any takers..
Chard1879
Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12
Subject: Re: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:04 pm
Xhosa wrote:
Coghill seems to have bolted, pure and simple in my opinion!
That is an outrageous remark to make, about an officer who assisted in the saving of the colours! He was a brave man.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:18 pm
That is an outrageous remark to make, about an officer who assisted in the saving of the colours! He was a brave man....fair enough that's your opinion!
I only gave mine! i have no question about Coghill's bravery coming back out of that river! think before you speak please..and consider this! all the survivors did so on horseback!i have no beef with any of our armed forces.. but many people continue to skirt around this issue..surely time for a rational debate! you or others might not like what i say, but i do have the right to say it! its called democracy, hard won by both my grandfathers and countless others!.
ADMIN
Posts : 4314 Join date : 2008-11-01 Age : 63 Location : KENT
Subject: Re: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:30 pm
Les is this History repeating it's self. Just be carefull we don't get banned from this forum!
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:46 pm
Wicked sense of humour, i remember that!
For a long time people have set down their thoughts on this issue, like, where was M and C on the FD trail, what was the timeline, who saw them! every one seems to skirt this issue...why? there has been enough time and distance passed..as long as no one is deliberately offensive then..lets go! the C IN C can gave his opinion all that time ago and all now know what he said!
6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
Subject: Re: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:30 pm
Sauve qui peut. That certainly absolves those who left the battlefield after the retreat...turned into a rout. As for those who left before them...consider that many were civilian and had that right really. In any case the first to flee tried to head back towards Rorke's Drift and they were met by the Zulu right wing...and dispatched. The latter group vacated the battlefield when it was arguable more appropriate. They enjoyed the benefit of their predecessors' example and headed for Fugitive's Drift. They had a better chance to survive...and I bet Coghill was among them.
Wolseley could mutter under his breath all he liked -- he still served in the British Army not a Japanese feudal shogunate.
Guest Guest
Subject: Re: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:52 pm
Sauve qui peut. That certainly absolves those who left the battlefield after the retreat...
Obviously you are not being serious..now 6pdr we have had this chat before! remember the ethos of the victorian officer class, boiled down to Cambridges own regiments motto! 'death before dishonour' digest that again if you please! the not so fancy phrase just means...every man for himself..every thing you said above shows your ignorance of these matters, let the debate continue a bit till you get the hang of it!
"Wolseley could mutter under his breath all he liked -- he still served in the British Army not a Japanese feudal shogunate"....no mate ! he was a general in the British Army and later became the C IN C.. its not the mikado.. dont wish to appear overbearing, but your pompous replies with out an apparent understanding of the subject irks a wee bit. no offence, i will not respond again until others run with this a while. if they so wish.
6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
Subject: Re: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:58 pm
That's the point. When the situation reaches a stage where sauve qui peut is the only sane response, there is no dishonor in running away as long as you fight another day...which many of the survivors did a few months later.
Frank Allewell
Posts : 8399 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 75 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Subject: Re: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:09 am
Les You've seen how I build the 3 dimensional computer models ? I have one Ive been working on for a long time of the Fugitives trail and the positions sightings etc of ALL the fugitives. And the only salient point is............it doesn't work. Or rather it does if you take Smith Dorrien out of the equation then it all fits like a jigsaw. But good old Horace screws everything up. and you cant discount him, that's the problem.
Cheers
6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
Subject: Re: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:22 pm
Springbok,
That's REALLY interesting in light of some other irregularities or controversial elements in Smith-Dorrien's testimony. Do you have a working theory?...he innocently inquires. (I know you must!)
John Young
Posts : 2836 Join date : 2013-09-08 Age : 67 Location : Слава Україні! Героям слава!
Subject: Re: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:40 pm
Frank,
Are we talking 1879 Smith-Dorrien as appear in U.K. press at the time, or his autobiography?
John Y.
Frank Allewell
Posts : 8399 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 75 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Subject: Re: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:41 am
Hi John His Autobiography. Question on a separate issue for you, do you have the photos of the old trading post down on the crossing at Durnfords Donga?
Regards
Frank Allewell
Posts : 8399 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 75 Location : Cape Town South Africa
Subject: Re: making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:42 pm
Springbok,
Shocked That's REALLY interesting in light of some other irregularities or controversial elements in Smith-Dorrien's testimony. Do you have a working theory?...he innocently inquires. (I know you must!)
Funny you should mention that.......................... but yes.
Cheers
making heroes of those who saved or attempted to save their lives by bolting