Latest topics | » Brothers SearsToday at 2:30 am by Eddie » Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.Yesterday at 4:15 pm by rai » A Bullet BibleMon Oct 07, 2024 11:41 am by Eddie » Shipping - transport in the AZWSun Oct 06, 2024 10:47 pm by Bill8183 » 1879 South Africa Medal named 1879 BARSun Oct 06, 2024 12:41 pm by Dash » A note on Captain Norris Edward Davey, Natal Volunteer Staff.Sun Oct 06, 2024 12:16 pm by Julian Whybra » Isandlwana papers he,d by the RE museum Sun Oct 06, 2024 6:06 am by 90th » An Irish V.C. conundrum?Thu Oct 03, 2024 10:51 am by Julian Whybra » Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now availableFri Sep 27, 2024 9:12 am by Julian Whybra » William Moore / William Potter 24th RegimentThu Sep 26, 2024 3:04 pm by Dash » Stalybridge men in the 24thThu Sep 26, 2024 2:24 pm by Dash » Grave of Henry SpaldingWed Sep 25, 2024 3:24 pm by Kenny » Thomas P Kensole and James J MitchellMon Sep 23, 2024 4:04 pm by Samnoco » flocking stands to historical accuracySun Sep 22, 2024 8:05 pm by GCameron » Private 25B/483 Joseph Phelan 1/24th RegimentFri Sep 20, 2024 5:22 pm by Dash » Updated list of Zulu War Veterans who came to Australia or New ZealandFri Sep 20, 2024 12:31 am by krish » A story regarding Younghusband's charge. Hearsay or a possibility? Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:26 pm by Julian Whybra » Nine of the 24thThu Sep 19, 2024 10:24 am by Julian Whybra » Colour Sergeant 2296 James Hannon HawkinsThu Sep 19, 2024 8:00 am by Samnoco » S.S. Solway Campbell/O'Keefe/Quigley 24th RegimentWed Sep 18, 2024 8:56 pm by Dash » Private 25B/2185 Owen Salmons alias Martin MacNamara? 1/24thWed Sep 18, 2024 8:44 pm by Bill8183 » Fort Evelyn and the grave of the 58th Regiment Drum MajorSun Sep 15, 2024 5:59 pm by 1879graves » Telescope v. field glassesSun Sep 15, 2024 10:20 am by 90th » Photo Lonsdales HorseTue Sep 10, 2024 10:10 pm by ciroferrara » Soldier 13th regiment of foot Natal new photo Tue Sep 10, 2024 8:32 pm by ciroferrara » Private 1941 Samuel MacClue / McClune 1/24th RegimentMon Sep 09, 2024 1:33 pm by Dash » Lieutenant & Adjutant Spencer Frederick Chichester, 2nd 21stMon Sep 09, 2024 11:56 am by Rory Reynolds » In search of the 80th FootSun Sep 08, 2024 6:39 pm by Julian Whybra » Corporal James Frowen Williams F Company. Sun Sep 08, 2024 4:43 pm by Dash » THE DISTINGUISHED CONDUCT MEDALThu Sep 05, 2024 11:16 pm by Julian Whybra » 9312 Sapper H Cuthbert 5th Field Coy REWed Sep 04, 2024 11:53 am by Julian Whybra » Who’s who in this photo?Tue Sep 03, 2024 12:44 pm by ianwood » Sir Robert William Jackson Mon Sep 02, 2024 10:24 am by Julian Whybra » Memorial to WolseleySun Sep 01, 2024 8:47 pm by John Young » Last of the 24th at IsandhlwanaSun Sep 01, 2024 7:51 am by Julian Whybra |
October 2024 | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat | Sun |
---|
| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | | | | Calendar |
|
Top posting users this month | |
New topics | » A Bullet BibleSun Oct 06, 2024 8:02 pm by Eddie » Shipping - transport in the AZWSun Oct 06, 2024 3:23 pm by Bill8183 » Isandlwana papers he,d by the RE museum Thu Oct 03, 2024 3:01 pm by Danny1960 » An Irish V.C. conundrum?Tue Oct 01, 2024 10:17 am by Julian Whybra » A note on Captain Norris Edward Davey, Natal Volunteer Staff.Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:25 pm by lydenburg » Ford Park Cemetery, Plymouth.Thu Sep 26, 2024 10:12 am by Samnoco » Grave of Henry SpaldingWed Sep 25, 2024 12:43 pm by Richard Spalding » Stalybridge men in the 24thTue Sep 24, 2024 6:48 pm by Dash » Studies in the Zulu War volume VI now availableFri Sep 20, 2024 4:54 pm by Julian Whybra |
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. |
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address.
Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.
If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.
We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes.
There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site.
The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum.
The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. |
Fair Use Notice | Fair use notice.
This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner.
We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes.
We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website.
If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution. |
| | Durnford was he capable. 4 | |
|
+18durnfordthescapegoat John littlehand Chard1879 ymob Ulundi 90th Chelmsfordthescapegoat sas1 Frank Allewell 6pdr Mr M. Cooper impi rusteze Ray63 ADMIN Julian Whybra 24th 22 posters | |
Author | Message |
---|
Julian Whybra
Posts : 4118 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:03 am | |
| Chard The substance of Gardner's message is correct. The wording and the so-called source are not. The North East Medals site is NOT a primary source. It is simply A.N.Other's writing - the danger of relying on the web for information. |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:40 am | |
| |
| | | Chard1879
Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:36 pm | |
| - Julian Whybra wrote:
- Chard
The substance of Gardner's message is correct. The wording and the so-called source are not. The North East Medals site is NOT a primary source. It is simply A.N.Other's writing - the danger of relying on the web for information. Where can one find the correct source. Primary! |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:57 pm | |
| Chard Go back a few posts the version I printed is substantially correct, and it comes from the North East site. Ive just had another look at that site and there is no mention of digging in /entrenchment in the version they have. Not a clue where impi dug it up. |
| | | 6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
| | | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:18 pm | |
| Far to enigmatic for this humble man of Africa. |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4118 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:51 pm | |
| Chard Forgive me for quoting from my own work: 29. Captain Alan Coulston GARDNER 14th Hussars, attached on special service to the Staff No. 3 Column for general staff duties
(A) Statement to the Court of Inquiry, made 26th January 1879 appears in the Blue Books.31 (B) In the Proceedings of the Court of Inquiry, made 27th January 1879 appears in the Blue Books.32 (C) An account and map in the National Archives.33 (D) A letter published in The Dover Express, 28th March 1879.
31 British Parliamentary Papers, op. cit., Enc. 2 in No. 12, p. 101. 32 Ibid., Encl. No. 2 in No. 13, p. 81. 33 WO 33/34, p. 289.
|
| | | Chard1879
Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12
| | | | Chard1879
Posts : 1261 Join date : 2010-04-12
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:19 pm | |
| |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:43 pm | |
| Chard [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Two different versions on the same web site should tell you a lot about it. Cheers |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:57 pm | |
| SIR, I HAVE the honour to forward herewith the proceedings of the Court of Inquiry held to take evidence regarding the disastrous affair of Isandlwana. The Court has very properly abstained from giving an opinion, and I myself refrain also from making any observation or from drawing any conclusions from the evidence therein recorded. I regret very much that more evidence has not been taken, and I have given instructions that all those who escaped, and who are able to throw any light whatever upon the occurrences of the day, should be at once called upon for a statement of what they saw. I deem it better, however, not to delay the transmission of the proceedings, which will no doubt be awaited with anxiety. I have directed my Military Secretary, Lieutenant-Colonel Crealock, to append a statement of the facts which came under his cognisance on the day in question, which may possibly serve to throw some additional light on what, I fear, will still be considered very obscure. It will, I fear, be impossible to furnish an absolutely correct list of all those who perished on the 22nd January, as every record connected with the several corps belonging to No. 3 Column has been lost. Colonel Glyn is doing his best to furnish what is required. Since writing the above the printed list of killed and wounded has reached me, several copies of which I beg to enclose. I have, &c., (Signed) CHELMSFORD, Lieutenant-General. In light of what we know now! how on earth did he have the brass neck to start the dispatch in such a fashion....Begger's belief ! |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:00 pm | |
| start the dispatch in such a fashion! it beggars belief!....
sorry about the glitch, think the nets dropping in and out. |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4118 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:20 pm | |
| Breeding, my dear Xhosa, pure breeding. Cameron has it, Heseltine has it, MacMillan had it. So did Chelmsford. They are/were born with a brass neck. |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:47 pm | |
| Don't get me started Julian..Supermac, Tarzan, both had a bit about them..Cameron er..that's a no! elected without a mandate and running scared from the odious little turd which is Farage..i was watching again last week The British Empire in colour, and indeed watched with glee as it was systematically dismantled.. it starts from the Diamond Jub in 1897 to the early years of the 21st century, and the last shot was to see a busy city in any part of England..masses of people passing the camera, every ethnic face you could conceive..all in living colour so to speak, when the Empire was taken away, we made up the commonwealth! and that is now the make up of this greater than ever country, all the countries we ruled and raped for labour and mineral wealth well their descendants are right here right now, is that not just the sweetest irony! i don't know why i have not a racist thought or bone in my body! i'm just very lucky i guess, i don't waste my life on hating people...Good breeding! that's such a subjective phrase.. Great series narrated by Art Malik. |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4118 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:24 am | |
| Xhosa
Note that I didn't say 'good' breeding...just 'breeding'.
And yet, mistakes aside, think what GB gave half the world: parliamentary democracy, freedom from slavery, the rule of law, incredibly improved communications via railways, the list is endless. Also, invariably GB did not 'rule' per se - the inclination was for informal rule where possible, formal rule only when necessary, such that most of Africa remained under local chieftains' rule with a British protectorate. And you know, Britain's Empire in Africa cost this country more than it brought back to the national wealth. While I admit individuals and companies certainly made individual profits out of mining etc, as a nation state GB did not. Have a look at Africa and the Victorians by Robinson and Gallagher - it's a very interesting yet underrated work. |
| | | 6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:34 pm | |
| - Julian Whybra wrote:
- And yet, mistakes aside, think what GB gave half the world:
Reminds me of the "What did the Romans ever do for us?!" routine in THE LIFE OF BRIAN. |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:46 pm | |
| |
| | | Mr M. Cooper
Posts : 2591 Join date : 2011-09-29 Location : Lancashire, England.
| | | | Mr M. Cooper
Posts : 2591 Join date : 2011-09-29 Location : Lancashire, England.
| | | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4118 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:00 pm | |
| Joking aside there are many similarities between the benefits of the Roman and British Empires on their subject peoples. They hold up very well in comparison to the French (sorry Pascal and Frederic!), Spanish and Portuguese and look like Paradise compared to the Italian and German. |
| | | 6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:13 pm | |
| - Julian Whybra wrote:
- Joking aside there are many similarities between the benefits of the Roman and British Empires on their subject peoples. They hold up very well in comparison to the French (sorry Pascal and Frederic!), Spanish and Portuguese and look like Paradise compared to the Italian and German.
Well, one of your brethren is arguing that the French really offered something in the 18th-19th century that the British could barely match: Napoleon. Andrew Roberts is making quite the case for THE Emperor of modern history. That comes as a bit of a surprise considering he is an Englishman and by the sound of his posh accent quite the Tory sort by way of OxBridge too. I think it will be in a lot of stockings (metaphorically speaking, because it's HUGE) this Xmas: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]But who had the worst Empire? Reminds me of another Python routine. "Those dirty Belgish bastards!" |
| | | Mr M. Cooper
Posts : 2591 Join date : 2011-09-29 Location : Lancashire, England.
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:19 pm | |
| I'm with you Julian, like you say, mistakes aside, the Brit's did a lot more good than harm, pity that some others refuse to see it the same way, as we now seem to have become a nation of apologists.
|
| | | Mr M. Cooper
Posts : 2591 Join date : 2011-09-29 Location : Lancashire, England.
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:24 pm | |
| One Brit that outmatched Napoleon was 'The Iron Duke', Sir Arthur Wellesley, The Duke of Wellington. |
| | | 6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:37 pm | |
| - Mr M. Cooper wrote:
- One Brit that outmatched Napoleon was 'The Iron Duke', Sir Arthur Wellesley, The Duke of Wellington.
Nah. The point of Roberts' book...and his promotional tour...is that apart from Waterloo Wellesley wasn't really a patch on Napoleon. Napoleon was so much more than a soldier. He was Renaissance man as tireless genius. He was only a general in his spare time; even so it took nearly the entirety of Europe to run him to ground in favor of the Ancien Regime.
Last edited by 6pdr on Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
| | | 6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:44 pm | |
| - Mr M. Cooper wrote:
- I'm with you Julian, like you say, mistakes aside, the Brit's did a lot more good than harm, pity that some others refuse to see it the same way, as we now seem to have become a nation of apologists.
Stop fooling yourself Mr. Cooper. Your lot have a LOT to apologize for. To pick just one random nation nobody every focuses on, ask a Kenyan. Judging by the latest reports on our CIA the US will probably have MORE to apologize for when all is said and done...but we haven't had the run of things as long. And the Chinese will probably be worst of all -- in the long run. We'll see! That's for future generations of historians to decide...and they will surely be kept busy ferreting the facts. |
| | | Mr M. Cooper
Posts : 2591 Join date : 2011-09-29 Location : Lancashire, England.
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:55 pm | |
| Well, we Brits used to put up a gallant fight against all who wanted to take over our country, however, it seems that these days all we do is kow tow and let others walk all over us.
This country is crying out for another valiant hearted leader, as it is now just a shadow of its glorious former self. I'm afraid that the British Lion seems to have had its teeth and claws removed and sleeps in the cat basket in the corner of the room slumbering the days away, if only it would roar again like it used to to. |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4118 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:08 pm | |
| 6pdr I take your point about Napoleon but his of course was a European empire not a world or rather a colonial one. I think that before we digress into a different discussion it might be remembered that we should not and cannot, judge the mores of the 1800s or early 1900s by the standards of 2014. You can only judge them by the standards of the time. It's just not good history. And by the standards of the time, GB comes out pretty well. Not perfect I admit. But in an age when slavery was the norm (1804 and 1834) it took a lot to police the world to root out slavers. By that token alone, GB deserves some credit. I haven't noticed any modern-day African or Arab countries apologizing to their peoples for previous (C16 and C17 and C18) rulers' imposition of slavery. And, anyway, in the age of CIA excesses, ISIS beheadings, al-Qaeda terrorism, INLA's continued bombings and murders, and the Taliban's treatment of women, who are we of 2014 to judge? Something about 'cast not the mote in another's eye when thou hast a beam in thine own'. |
| | | 6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:18 pm | |
| - Julian Whybra wrote:
- But in an age when slavery was the norm (1804 and 1834) it took a lot to police the world to root out slavers. By that token alone, GB deserves some credit. I haven't noticed any modern-day African or Arab countries apologizing to their peoples for previous (C16 and C17 and C18) rulers' imposition of slavery.
Absolutely. Americans can have no argument with that. But I DON't think we have to go back to the 18thC or before to find things for which GB could apologize for. Not hardly. Familiar with Caoline Elkins, IMPERIAL RECKONING? Heck, even NIALL in denial FERGUSON blurbed it for her...but I sincerely doubt he makes the contents known at cocktail parties. - Quote :
- And, anyway, in the age of CIA excesses, ISIS beheadings, al-Qaeda terrorism, INLA's continued bombings and murders, and the Taliban's treatment of women, who are we of 2014 to judge? Something about 'cast not the mote in another's eye when thou hast a beam in thine own'.
Disagree. I take your point about writing history from the POV of the moralist. That IS a waste of everybody's time. But while standards of oppression wax and wane we all know an atrocity when we behold it. I had a preview of a forthcoming Rick Burns documentary...in which it seemed like the Pilgrims who founded the nation I live in had a lot more in common with ISIS and the Taliban than the vast majority of its modern day inhabitants...including beheadings. We're just not taught that in school here. And another serious popular historian, Nathaniel Philbrick, (whose documentation of Puritan behavior during King William's War is amazing) told an utterly American audience I was part of recently that when you look at the reality of the events the led up to our independence, really, our sympathies should be almost entirely with Britain. He said our behavior then had more in common with Afghanis' behavior today than what we consider reasonable now. There should be more apologizing. It's good for the soul. Or do you want to be like the right wing in Japan today and claim all these claims of atrocity during WW2 were made up? |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:17 pm | |
| Mistakes!!!..very droll Julian.. i suppose we are all a product of the some parts, which make up the whole! from the cradle to the grave we are moulded and shaped, our thoughts and ideas are swamped from such an early age that the unlucky ones are stuck with that burden of tradition and expectations that could easily cloud and blight their lives..the very fortunate few can ( if intelligence and free thinking is present ) rise above that and make informed decisions about the world we live in.. a lot of us bemoan the current state of the world and would dearly wish that things could go back to the way that we per sieved things back in the ' good old days ' unfortunately they were not as good for a vast percentage of innocents who were caught up in the machinations of an elitist few! yes things have changed! forever!!! its time we all took responsibility and stop moaning.. its our one and only duty as a citizen's of this mad, twisted, glorious world that we ensure future generations live free from hunger and fear.. don't fear change, embrace it, and things wont look so bleak to some.. |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4118 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:14 pm | |
| Xhosa Actually I don't think I used the word 'mistakes'. I still do not hold with judging the mores of the those in the past by today's standards. Funnily enough I was reading today of Cromwell's atrocities where he murdered women and children prisoners - it was known as Abingdon's Law for centuries. Something I had no inkling about - and him a Puritan too. I don't believe just apologizing is right - something has to be to make amends - a simple apology from Japan would be meaningless but a re-education programme would have been the right thing to do. Re society sadly I don't things have changed. Those at the top are still at the top and those at the bottom are still there too. It's still a matter of who you know and not what you know.
Last edited by Julian Whybra on Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
| | | 6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:27 pm | |
| - Julian Whybra wrote:
- Funnily enough I was reading today of Cromwell's atrocities where he murdered women and children prisoners - it was known as Abingdon's Law for centuries. Something I had no inkling about - and him a Puritan too.
It was a rough time alright. I will reiterate my suggestion that any and all who are interested in history here, and may need a refresher on that period, rent a French film called QUEEN MARGOT. Fair warning: Christian internecine strife depicted. It is not dreary at all though. Just the reverse. Grabs you in the opening moments and doesn't let go until the last scene. You'll thank me for the suggestion, I promise! |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:38 pm | |
| |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:52 pm | |
| |
| | | Mr M. Cooper
Posts : 2591 Join date : 2011-09-29 Location : Lancashire, England.
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:52 pm | |
| Bonsior Frederic. Yes my friend, many thanks for that. I thought I had read it somewhere that he had survived, but could not be sure which book I had read it in. Cheers. |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:15 pm | |
| - Mr M. Cooper wrote:
- Bonsior Frederic.
Yes my friend, many thanks for that. I thought I had read it somewhere that he had survived, but could not be sure which book I had read it in.
Cheers. Bonsoir Martin, Happy to help. Cheers Frédéric |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:56 pm | |
| [quote="Julian Whybra"]Joking aside there are many similarities between the benefits of the Roman and British Empires on their subject peoples. They hold up very well in comparison to the French (sorry Pascal and Frederic!),
Bonsoir Mister Whybra,
Probably, you are the historian, not me. But: The creation of the "Industrial revolution", "the concentration camps" and the "famine potatoes" are not French: The benefit of the British Empire on their subject people?
I.E: Il existe une expression en France: "sortir les cadavres du placard" Wink
Amitiés.
Frédéric: |
| | | 6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:05 pm | |
| Frederic,
Against which I will put Haiti and nearly every French colony in the Caribbean. Napoleon undercutting his revolution in the worst possible way!
Plenty of this sort of thing to go around, mind.
- 6pdr |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:11 am | |
| - 6pdr wrote:
- Frederic,
Against which I will put Haiti and nearly every French colony in the Caribbean. Napoleon undercutting his revolution in the worst possible way!
Plenty of this sort of thing to go around, mind.
- 6pdr Bonsoir 6 Pdr, As i said previously, sorry in French ("sortir les cadavres du placard") there is no interest to write a list of "atrocities"on their people subject from France, Great Britain or other country . Sadly the list is always too long.... I have many respect for Julian Whybra (for the man and for the historian). My post was just a "warning": I have only to try to point out that the "British Empire" was (maybe) better (for the people) than France or other country, but was certainly not "the white dove" (unfortunately). As you, i have also (unfortunately) "plenty of this sort of thing" in mind on Great Britain, France, Germany ....and USA. I am not necessary agree with your last opinion, but it 's not the subject of this forum, i am not on this forum to discuss of this sort of subject (there are plenty forums on the web on Napoleon or on the French revolutionary in my native langage), so i don't want to debate again. it's my last post on this point. Please, see no offense. Cheers / Cordialement. Frédéric |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:29 am | |
| Still with a AZW connection ish! here's a young scamp who rose from the rank's.. any one know the film and his character? clue.. medal ribbon. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] |
| | | 6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:49 am | |
| It's weird, but this skirl keeps coming into my head yet I can't quite make out the tune. Hmmm...that's not Jock Sinclair, is it? |
| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:22 am | |
| |
| | | 6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:27 am | |
| - ymob wrote:
- so i don't want to debate again. it's my last post on this point.
Frédéric, No problem whatsoever. Had I been able to read the French I wouldn't have posted that anyway... - 6pdr |
| | | 6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:03 am | |
| - springbok9 wrote:
- Now that was a brilliant movie, didn't it have a Welsh disciple? Must ask Martin.
Let me know if you hear a Welsh accent... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]Reg: They've bled us white, the bastards. They've taken everything we had, not just from us, from our fathers and from our fathers' fathers. Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers. Reg: Yes. Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers. Reg: All right, Stan. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return? Xerxes: The aqueduct. Reg: Oh yeah, yeah they gave us that. Yeah. That's true. Masked Activist: And the sanitation! Stan: Oh yes... sanitation, Reg, you remember what the city used to be like. Reg: All right, I'll grant you that the aqueduct and the sanitation are two things that the Romans have done... Matthias: And the roads... Reg: (sharply) Well yes obviously the roads... the roads go without saying. But apart from the aqueduct, the sanitation and the roads... Another Masked Activist: Irrigation... Other Masked Voices: Medicine... Education... Health... Reg: Yes... all right, fair enough... Activist Near Front: And the wine... Omnes: Oh yes! True! Francis: Yeah. That's something we'd really miss if the Romans left, Reg. Masked Activist at Back: Public baths! Stan: And it's safe to walk in the streets at night now. Francis: Yes, they certainly know how to keep order... (general nodding)... let's face it, they're the only ones who could in a place like this. Reg: All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us? Xerxes: Brought peace! Reg: (very angry, he's not having a good meeting at all) What!? Oh... (scornfully) Peace, yes... shut up! |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:21 am | |
| Xerxes was from Pontypool, his mom used to pull pints at the pub. |
| | | 6pdr
Posts : 1086 Join date : 2012-05-12 Location : NYC
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:03 am | |
| - springbok9 wrote:
- Xerxes was from Pontypool, his mom used to pull pints at the pub.
And valued peace as a result. Is that perhaps why the English had their way so easily with the Welsh? |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4118 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:43 am | |
| Xhosa Apologies, I did use the word 'mistakes'.
Frederic "Industrial revolution" - a bad thing? "the concentration camps" = the U.S. "famine potatoes" - not an invention
6pdr For me the tragedy is a class one - not a ruler/ruled one. The ordinary people of these isles have been downtrodden since the Conquest. All else has been a diversion - an interesting one - but a diversion.
I think the argument has gone from the merits/demerits of the Empire to something else and I'm not sure there's a connection.
It has certainly moved away from the original question. Time to get it back? |
| | | Mr M. Cooper
Posts : 2591 Join date : 2011-09-29 Location : Lancashire, England.
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:26 am | |
| Spot on again Julian, the ordinary folk have been used and abused since 'Guillaume Le Batard' and his norse hoards paid us a visit, and it is these sort of folk that are still lording it over us even today.
The ordinary people still get it in the neck and take the brunt of anti British insults by all and sundry, when it should be the ruling classes that get this venom spat at them, not the ordinary folk.
They need the ordinary people to do all the dirty work and fight and die so that they can keep the status quo and keep lording it over us, it is about time the ordinary people woke up and got rid of the norman yoke that has burdened us since 1066.
And yes, let's get back to the topic. |
| | | Frank Allewell
Posts : 8572 Join date : 2009-09-21 Age : 77 Location : Cape Town South Africa
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:19 pm | |
| I seem to recall a ditti:
The working class can kiss my A**S Ive got the foremans job at last. When your out of work and on the dole you can stuff the red flag up your hole.
Ah yes the famous "Im all right jack"
Sums it all up. |
| | | Julian Whybra
Posts : 4118 Join date : 2011-09-12 Location : Billericay, Essex
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:21 pm | |
| Sadly, that too, springy! |
| | | ymob
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2010-10-22 Location : France
| Subject: Re: Durnford was he capable. 4 Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:41 pm | |
| - 6pdr wrote:
- ymob wrote:
- so i don't want to debate again. it's my last post on this point.
Frédéric,
No problem whatsoever. Had I been able to read the French I wouldn't have posted that anyway...
- 6pdr Bonjour 6 pdr Sorry, i don't understand your remark about "had i been able to read the French" and 'I wouldn't have post that anyway"... If you think that I don't want to debate because you are unable to read the French, it is really not the case!. Being unable to speak or to read French is not a "flaw" !!! Cheers Frédéric |
| | | | Durnford was he capable. 4 | |
|
Similar topics | |
|
| Permissions in this forum: | You cannot reply to topics in this forum
| |
| |
| |