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» South Africa 1877-79, 1 clasp, 1877-8-9 (4389 Fr. Sergt. S. Smith. O/2. Bde. R.A.)
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 Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal

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John Young
90th
nitro450
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nitro450

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PostSubject: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyThu Jan 22, 2015 5:04 am

I recently acquired a Zulu war medal with 1879 bar, the recipient's details are as follows: Cpl S. Larcombe, Tr 2nd Dr. There is no regimental i/d number on it. the Tr and 2nd Dr ar all upper case the latter letters are smaller the the T and D. I have Dutton's book Forgotten Heroes, the Zulu and Basuto Wars but have not been able to find him or a Unit which may match the particulars on the medal. I thought it may have been the 2nd Dragoons but he is not listed with them. Can anyone help?
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90th

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PostSubject: Help to identify regt details on zulu war medal    Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyThu Jan 22, 2015 9:16 am

Hi Nitro
Sorry I cant find anything , I thought the Tr may have been Transport , but have no idea what 2nd Dr ( Driver ? ) may mean , it may possibly be a re-named medal , where did you come by it , and can you post a some pics ? .
Cheers 90th Shocked
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nitro450

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyThu Jan 22, 2015 9:34 am

Hi 90th,
Yes, I believe it is a renamed medal and it came for a chap who calls himself medalfinder on Ebay, UK. I will see what I can do about some pics of the naming. I have a Crimean medal for a Gunner in the RA, with Gr & Dr on it. Being new to medals I didn't know the Dr was driver in that case.
Regards, nitro450
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90th

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PostSubject: help to identify regt details on zulu war medal    Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyThu Jan 22, 2015 9:41 am

Nitro
Re- named Medals are difficult to clarify , I'd be interested to know what you paid for it ? . If you dont wish to say on the forum , send me a pm .
Cheers 90th Salute
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nitro450

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyThu Jan 22, 2015 10:09 am

Hi 90th,

I don't mind saying, it cost me $416 posted from UK which I didn't think was too bad. It is in quite nice condition, not worn, new ribbon. They seem to go for a lot more usually. I'm really a rifle collector, with a strong interest in things African, in particularly the Zulu War. We visited Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift last year, my second time. Stayed in the Lodge there and did the Battlefield tours with Rob Gerrard. Fantastic I thought but at around a grand for two days it's not cheap.
Regards, nitro450.
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90th

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PostSubject: Help to identify regt details on zulu war medal    Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyThu Jan 22, 2015 10:26 am

Hi Nitro
I was over there in march -april last year , I went with Holt's Battlefield Tours , we stayed 4 nights at Isandlwana Lodge , a fantastic tour as we went to all the battlefields , along with Blood River , some of us climbed Hlobane Mtn , also walked the fugitives trail and crossed the river by truck tyre ! , also waded across the intombi river , stopped at Morme Gorge , visited the grave site of Lt Scott - Douglas 2 /21 st and Cpl Cotter 17th Lcrs , one of the best trips I've had the privilege to have done , many other places as well , all up it was 12 days , and cost me about 10 K , which included my return Emirates airfare . What month were you there , how much per night , also what were the prices of the tours ? . 1,000 for two days seems a lot ! Shocked
Cheers 90th Salute
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nitro450

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyThu Jan 22, 2015 10:57 am

Hi 90th,
The two nights at the Lodge were $746 odd, plus drinks and a couple of minor purchases. Two tours with Rob to Isandlwana, Rorke's Drift were $180, so it added up. We also went to Fugutives Drift and saw Melvill and Coghill's Graves. I don't regret it for a moment as it will be my last time. I have been to RSA 6 times, 4 times hunting and twice touring. We did a fair bit of other stuff on this last trip afterward and before KZN. Also I have been to Zim and Botswana, I really love it over there.We may go back to Africa again, I don't know.
nitro450
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nitro450

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyThu Jan 22, 2015 11:14 am

Sorry, We were there in August, winter is the best time for RSA. Low season, cheaper prices (normally) and easy bookings. We had a month touring around including 7 night Tour all included Cape Town to Durban, 5 nights in a 4 star Resort called Kedar Country Hotel which houses a terrific collection of Anglo Boer War material, rifles badges, medals, uniforms etc, near Pilanesberg NP. Then 10 nights in a 3 BR House overlooking Kruger NP self catering with a night here and there on the way. All up 6-7K for two + air fares.
I had been to Blood River in 1997, an amazing monument to the Africaaners !!
Regards,
nitro450
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John Young

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Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal Empty
PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyThu Jan 22, 2015 12:40 pm

Two Larcombes in the campaign, both Privates, both with the initial W.

One 1st/13th LI & the other 3rd/60th Rifles.

JY


Last edited by John Young on Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Removed a double typed word.)
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nitro450

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyFri Jan 23, 2015 9:58 am

Hi JY,
Is that a fact, well then, where does this leave my medal ?? It doen't seem feasible to fake one. The engraving is quite old style and aged looking. I am mystified.
nitro450
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyFri Jan 23, 2015 10:48 am

Nitro. Can you post an image of the medal. If possible the name on the side!
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyFri Jan 23, 2015 11:07 am

Nitro450,

Lots of people make lots of money from faked/altered medals.

2nd Dragoons - Royal Scots Greys - only supplied two officers and two men to the campaign, none of whom were named Larcombe or anything like it.

I am not a medal collector, so I do not profess to be an expert on them, but I will leave you to draw your own conclusions as to the medal you have.  

JY
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nitro450

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyFri Jan 23, 2015 11:29 am

JY,
Where did you get you info on the two Larcombes you referred to ? I am curious. I don't reckon I'm too concerned re this medal, it didn't cost the earth. I'll sell it later if I decide I don't want it and I have another to a Pte P Connors of the 88th. It is genuine at least. As I posted before I am not medal collector either just interested in certain campaigns.
nitro450
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John Young

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyFri Jan 23, 2015 11:59 am

Nitro450,

From the 1877-8-9 Medal Roll, of which I have database of.

1st/13th LI - Pte. 36B/122 W. Larcombe.
3rd/60th Rifles Pte. 2241 W. Larcombe.

JY
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90th

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PostSubject: Help To Identify Regt details on zulu war medal    Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyFri Jan 23, 2015 12:20 pm

Hi Nitro
On the Medal roll there is 1138 Private P Connors medal with Clasp 77-78 and 1659 Private P Connors 77-78-79 ; A notation beneath him states '' He appears to have received the Clasps 1877-78 and 1879 ''. Which one do you have ? .
90th
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SergioD

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyFri Jan 23, 2015 5:16 pm

On the subject of the 2nd Dragoons - Dutton has erroneously combined the 2nd Dragoon Guards and the 2nd Dragoons . you would have to refer to the original medal rolls to find out which. As John says unfortunately no trace of your guy on either.

I actually have medals to Private Day, 2nd Dragoon Guards and Private Howard, 2nd Dragoons . I will check the naming - but my records show them as Privates not troopers.

It could be that your medal is to a colonial - Ill have a look to see if I turn anything up.

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90th

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PostSubject: Help To Identify regt details on zulu war medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyFri Jan 23, 2015 9:22 pm

Hi Nitro / Sergio
The thought it could've been a Colonial medal crossed my mind initially with the naming Tr ( Trooper ) possibly ? , but the Dr , couldnt find a unit resembling what it may be , outside of the Diamond Field Horse ! . Then I went with the Commissariat or Army Transport Corps the Tr possibly meaning Transport ? . Nitro I sent you a pm last night did you see it ? . I was caught up watching the cricket so I didnt reply to your pm till after 11pm ! Joker . For all you non Aussies , suffice to say we WON AGAIN ! , chasing down the 304 with two balls to spare ! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy , I know I've just spoilt Sergio's and JY's day ! lol.
90TH
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littlehand

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySat Jan 24, 2015 1:09 am

Been looking for the markings. The nearest thing I can find is this.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Let's hope not !
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nitro450

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySat Jan 24, 2015 1:23 am

I got a similar result from a google search myself !! I doubt the Confederacy troops were involved !!
nitro450
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nitro450

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySat Jan 24, 2015 3:38 am

My other medal is for 1659 Pte. P Connors, 88th Foot. He was entitled to the South African Medal with all three dates on his clasp. His Service record came with it on disc. He joined at Aldershott in 1877, aged 15 and 4' 11'' and was discharged in1885 at 5' 81/2". He served from 16/6/77 to 2/10/79 in Kaffraria and Zululand. From 3/10/79 to 23/11/85 he served in India. He enlisted in the Royal Irish Reserve aged 40 on 24/3/1900. That is as far as it goes. Tough little rooster like a lot of others at that time.
nitro450.
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24th

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySat Jan 24, 2015 8:50 am

littlehand wrote:
Been looking for the markings. The nearest thing I can find is this.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Let's hope not !
Looks like a postcode.

I been looking for this medal finder chap on eBay. No luck?
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySat Jan 24, 2015 12:39 pm

Hi Nitro 450

Here are some census entries for Patrick Connors, his wife Mary Ellen and their family in Liverpool.

1891
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

1901
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

1911
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Best wishes
Steve
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nitro450

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySun Jan 25, 2015 1:51 am

Hi, The medal vendor on Ebay was navigator9999, not medalfinder after all. My feeble memory has let me down again. I've emailed him/her asking for comment on our findings, no comment so far !!
I'm hoping it might be an obscure colonial group, but........
nitro450
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nitro450

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySun Jan 25, 2015 4:20 am

Hi Rusteze, Thanks for sharung that with me, I appreciate it very much. Are you interested in this chap ? How did you know this was my fellow. You can send me a pm if you like.
nitro450.
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90th

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PostSubject: Hi Nitro   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySun Jan 25, 2015 8:40 am

Hi Nitro
There is only one Private P Connors 88th Regt on the roll with the clasp 77 - 78 and 79 . there is another Private P Connors but he was entitled to the 1877-78 clasp only .
Cheers 90th Salute
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nitro450

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Location : Sydney, Australia

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySun Jan 25, 2015 10:04 am

90th,
Mine is 1659 P. Connors the first one you mention. I have given his history as supplied with the medal above.
nitro450
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rusteze

rusteze


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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySun Jan 25, 2015 10:55 am

Morning Nitro

Your very welcome to the family details. His service papers, which you have already, are also on line. You can see on those that he was born in Colchester in  1858 and his wife's name was Mary Ellen. Those details tie in with the census returns that I posted.

I have a couple more interesting documents for you that I will post later.

Regards

Steve
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nitro450

nitro450


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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySun Jan 25, 2015 11:18 am

Good Evening Steve !
As I said I appreciate you posting the details like that for me and every one else. I find it very interesting to locate personal details of items I have in my collection, like owners of rifles etc. His enlistment papers for the Royal Irish Reserve show his wife's name that's all. He had a fair size family. I'd love to get a photo. I did find a photo on line of a Maharajah whose rifles I owned, I still have one of them. It is a 12 bore DB Rifle by Rigby.
nitro450.
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rusteze

rusteze


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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySun Jan 25, 2015 12:44 pm

Hi Nitro

This is the 1861 census for Patrick Connors (age 3). The interesting thing is that it is in the infantry barracks in Colchester and it shows his father Michael, mother Mary and brother Richard. His father is a private in the army. In 1861 the depot battalion in Colchester was the 88th Connaught Rangers - so his father was in the same regiment!

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I then found the service papers for 2467 Michael Connors of the 88th. I cannot say 100% that it is Patrick's father, but I am pretty sure it is. You will see that he was awarded the Crimea medal with three bars and the Indian Mutiny medal with one bar. He was wounded at Inkerman. In 1857 he received 50 lashes. Quite a record.

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So, you have two more medals to find my friend!

Regards

Steve
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90th

90th


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PostSubject: Help to Identify regt details on zulu war medal    Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptySun Jan 25, 2015 9:10 pm

Hi Steve
Interesting and excellent stuff , thanks that man ! Salute Very Happy
90th Shocked
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nitro450

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PostSubject: Re: Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal   Help to identify regiment details on Zulu War Medal EmptyMon Jan 26, 2015 4:08 am

Hi Steve,
That is interesting stuff to add to the history I have already. I am thinking of putting the medal in a frame with the Badges of the 88th and maybe a battle scene picture from the Zulu conflict. I have a similar one for the 24th, no medal though !! There was one on Ebay a while back for Pte Cotterill with his Egypt ones as well. Too high for me at 1200 quid.
Thanks for posting.
nitro450
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