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The Death of the Prince Imperial Zulu War 1879
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90th
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littlehand
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1879graves
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat
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BobTiernan
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90th
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1879graves
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptyMon May 25, 2015 1:58 pm

My sons always warning me about bugs on the computer, must be where I caught it
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptyMon May 25, 2015 2:46 pm

Starting a different tac, do we have any idea when the items were donated to the museum. The accession number for instance?
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Julian Whybra




Posts : 3182
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptyMon May 25, 2015 4:31 pm

There is no indication from the accession number as to date. The only clue lies in the note on the Natal Witness letter saying referring to Frances Colenso's letter 29.6.1885.
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Chelmsfordthescapegoat

Chelmsfordthescapegoat


Posts : 2594
Join date : 2009-04-24

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptyMon May 25, 2015 7:57 pm

JW wrote:
The only clue lies in the note on the Natal Witness letter saying referring to Frances Colenso's letter 29.6.1885.

Now your on the road to no-where.
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Julian Whybra




Posts : 3182
Join date : 2011-09-12
Location : Billericay, Essex

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptyTue May 26, 2015 7:43 am

On the contrary. I think we have already arrived.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptyTue May 26, 2015 9:22 am

Julian
Ive had some success with the National Data base in south Africa by looking at the accession number sequence before and after a dubious item. In fact to trace and date one issue I called back ten numbers either side and managed to get a very close time frame. Would that be a potential for this particular item?

Regards
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Julian Whybra




Posts : 3182
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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptyTue May 26, 2015 9:47 am

Hi
I'll follow it up.
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John

John


Posts : 2558
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Age : 60
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptyFri May 29, 2015 9:59 pm

John read the terms and conditions on the " Queen Victoria's Journal " website. Post a link not the contents.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2872
Join date : 2010-06-02

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptyFri May 29, 2015 10:58 pm

The map being referred to by QV is not either of the maps under discussion which are both restricted to the area around Isandhlwana.

What the passage does show is just how politically partisan the Queen was and the senior officers she favoured. She had no time for Gladstone and his goverment refusing to attend the opening of Parliament as she had for D'isreali. Note too how Buller praises Frere and wants to get at Hicks-Beach who had tried to stop the invasion. Such blatent support for one party by the monarch seems inconceivable today.

Steve
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John

John


Posts : 2558
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Age : 60
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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptyFri May 29, 2015 11:11 pm

You seem so certain the maps mention are nothing to do with Isandlwana. You give no reason how you came to that conclusion.
But go off on a Random rant, giving your opinion on how the Passage comes across to you.  No

Text deleted. Can be found in the link in John's post above. Admin!

So what Battle do you think Buller was referring to?
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rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2872
Join date : 2010-06-02

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptyFri May 29, 2015 11:52 pm

Not a random rant John, just my view about  QV and her political position which is clearly reflected in what she writes and who she supports.  If you think the map she is referring to is the same as the two we were discussing what point are you making?

On Buller, when this note was made the war was over , D'Israeli had fallen and Gladstone would not consider annexation as it appears the army wanted.  Is Buller talking about Isandhlwana eight months before or about the Zulu forces that now existed?
Steve


Last edited by rusteze on Sat May 30, 2015 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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Julian Whybra




Posts : 3182
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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptySat May 30, 2015 7:27 am

Frank
I've asked the curator at the RE Museum to see what's either side of the accession entry to see if there's a date clue at all. If there is I'll go down to Chatham and explore it further. I'm waiting for her reply.
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Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8362
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptySat May 30, 2015 12:20 pm

Well done Julian, could be illuminating.
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krish




Posts : 63
Join date : 2015-01-30
Location : Australia

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptySat May 30, 2015 11:19 pm

I am going to just make a comment, I know which map Queen Victoria had. But as a family historian I work on fact. When my copy is sent I will share this bit of many mysteries.
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http://www.edurnford.blogspot.com
John

John


Posts : 2558
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Age : 60
Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptySun May 31, 2015 11:18 am

Steve I'm not on about the polictical view, i'm referring to the map not being correct.

You stated the map has nothing to do with Isandlwana, yet you cannot show anything to substantiate that?
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rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2872
Join date : 2010-06-02

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PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptySun May 31, 2015 12:45 pm

John

We must wait and see what Krish has turned up. My view is that the map Chelmsford left with QV is unlikely to be the same as the two Isandhlwana maps we were discussing for the following reasons. QV's journal note about being given the map by Chelmsford was made on 5/9/79, the two maps we are discussing were not completed and signed off by Capt.Anstey until 11 and 13/11/79 and not printed until January 1880. In her Journal entry QV says " Ld Chelmsford brought me a map and showed the distances, on which he had written and pointed out the impossibilities of proceeding in directions people thought he could, owing to the broken ground". To me, that does not sound like the Isandhlwana maps we have been discussing, it sounds more like a map of Zululand. None of the maps of Zululand were correct - there had not been a proper survey.

Steve
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Julian Whybra




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Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock      Announcement ! Question and Answer Session with the renowned Zulu War Authors & Historians Mr Peter Quantrill & Mr Ron Lock    - Page 2 EmptySun May 31, 2015 12:50 pm

John
Rusteze is quite right about the date. The later date precludes it having been viewed by QV three months earlier. Logic.
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