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 57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu

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Victorian Dad

Victorian Dad

Posts : 41
Join date : 2015-12-27
Location : Victorian London

57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu Empty
PostSubject: 57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 9:52 am

Hi Ladies & Gents,

This is my very first post on the forum. I have to admit that I know very little about the Zulu war(s), my normal sphere of interest is Victorian Police medals, in particular H Division (Whitechapel). By a strange shift of fate I find myself here..... A few months back I bought an Egypt 1882 medal to a guy from Spitalfields, it transpired that he had also served in the Zulu War of 1879, his Regiment at that time was the 57th.

William Moss was born in August 1857 in the Parish of Spitalfields. He was Christened (on the 23rd Agust 1857) at St Matthias's Church Bethnal Green.
His address is given as 20 White Street (now Vallance Road), (his parents as Jospeh & Emma - Joseph's employment given a Labourer).
On the 1861 census he is shown as living at 2 Sheppard Street, Spitalfields. With his mother and father, two brothers and two sisters (they appear to have also been sharing this address with a Mrs Dodd and her three children). Joseph's employment given as Dock Labourer. By 1871 he's living at 3 Tenter Court (off Tenter Street), which is just off Sheppard's Street all very close to Spitalfields Market. Joseph is not listed as living with the family at this time. It is likely that he'd found himself another women at this point as it appears a Joseph Moss finds himself at the Old Bailey charged with Bigamy, he is equitted. I have been unable to confirm whether they are one in the same man, however).The two daughters have also disappeared at this point, but a grandson is listed. William's employment is given as errand boy. Emma appear's to die in 1875 and William joins the army (57th Regiment - General Service Infantry) on the 13th May 1876 (at 10 am) in London, on the 19th May he is at Hartley, Kent. Age on enlistement given as 18 and 9 months, his previous employment as Labourer. Previous military service given as Militia. Height given as 5` 5 1/2", complextion fair. Eyes hazel, hair brown, trade labourer.
Service...
England 16th May 1876 until 15th October 1877
Ceylon 16th October 1877 until 19th Feb 1879
South Africa 20th Feb 1879 until 13th Dec 1879 (57th Regiment)
England 14th Dec 1879 until 13th Aug 1880 (?Ireland)
East Indies 14th Aug 1880 until 30th June 1881
East Indies 1st July 1881 until 2nd March 1882 (Childer Reform)
England 3rd March 1882 until 28th Aug 1882
Egypt 29th Aug 1882 until 14th Feb 1883 (1st Btn Sussex Regt) (arrived 14th September)
England 15th Feb 1883 until 15th May 1888

Upon discharge (30th March 1883) his intended address is given as 7 Thomas Street, Bromley by Bow.
William marries Eliza 25th December 1884 at St Paul's Bow Common. Adress given as 16 St Dunstables Road (father given as Joseph, employment Labourer).
1891 13 Thomas Street Bromley by Bow employment Carman.
1901 103 Brabazon Street, Bromley By Bow (Road foreman for council.)
1911 he's in Morris Rd. The address seems like 18 but there's something written just before the 18 that I can't decipher.

What I'm hoping someone will be able to assist me with is a more detailed account of the 57th role in this battle. I've surfed the net and although there is no shortage of accounts, from what I've been able to ascertain although the 57th were present, I haven't been able to ascertain exactly what there involvement was, it appears that the battle raged on around them, without them taking any real active part in the fighting, is this the case?



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waterloo50

waterloo50

Posts : 600
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PostSubject: Re: 57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 11:32 am

Victorian Dad,

Hello and welcome.

Could I suggest that you use the forum search bar, just enter '57th or Gingindlovu', there are a few topics for the 57th, failing that, you could take a look at this link for an overview, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
There are a few bits of info on there such as' The north face of the square was held by the 3rd Battalion, the 60th Rifles; the left by the 99th Regiment and the Buffs (3rd Foot) and the right face by the 57th Regiment. The corners of the square were reinforced by Gatling Guns, conventional artillery and rocket troughs.

I am sure some of the more experienced members here will have all the info you need.

Kind Regards

Waterloo
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Victorian Dad

Victorian Dad

Posts : 41
Join date : 2015-12-27
Location : Victorian London

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PostSubject: Re: 57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 2:59 pm

Thanks Waterloo, have seen all these threads, but nothing seems to give a really detailed account as to what the 57th did, it's like they stood round with their hands in their pockets or something?
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waterloo50

waterloo50

Posts : 600
Join date : 2013-09-18
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57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu Empty
PostSubject: Re: 57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyMon Dec 28, 2015 3:51 pm

The 57th were most definitely in action but to what extent I'm not sure, they formed part of the second brigade, under W.I. Lt-Col. Pemberton. They were involved in defending the laager along with the 99th the 91st regiment, the Buffs and the Marines. There are descriptions of the battle (Lord Chelmsford) gives an account but I haven't seen any accounts of individual regimental actions (that doesn't mean there aren't any, it just means I haven't seen them yet). I am sure that someone on the forum will be able to point you in the right direction.
Good luck in your research
Waterloo.
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Victorian Dad

Victorian Dad

Posts : 41
Join date : 2015-12-27
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PostSubject: Re: 57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 12:11 pm

I found this, which suggests that they did take an active part in the battle.......

The 57th reached Fort Pearson on the 26th March, and was there detailed to 1st Brigade of the Column. The advance into the enemy’s country was commenced on the 29th. At the battle of Gingindlovu, which ensued on the morning of the 2nd April, the regt. held the right flank face of the laager and assisted in repelling the first desperate onslaught of the enemy. It was specially mentioned in Lord Chelmsford’s despatch describing the battle as being distinguished for its steadiness under fire. On the 3rd the Column marched into Eshowe, and relieved Col. Pearson’s force.

The regt. subsequently formed part of the 2nd Brigade of Crealock’s Div. It advanced to Fort Durnford, burning Zulu homesteads, the chief of which was Ondine, and disarming the coast tribes. Subsequently to the arrival of Sir Garnet Wolseley it formed part of Clarke’s Column in the second advance and occupation of Ulundi, where it remained for three weeks, and was employed in the pursuit and capture of the King. It then returned to Natal via Entumeni and Middle Drift, assisting in the subjugation of the border tribes in the neighbourhood of the Lower Tugela.
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waterloo50

waterloo50

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PostSubject: Re: 57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 3:02 pm

Victorian Dad

That's pretty much the same as I have read, I can't seem to find anything that goes into any detailed description. Where did you find your account? did you find it online or are you quoting from a book?

Regards
waterloo
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: 57th Regt at the Battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyTue Dec 29, 2015 10:54 pm

Hi Guys
Not sure you'll find to much detail apart from what you've already sourced , possibly in the Regimental History , I assume they have one ? .
90th agree
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Victorian Dad

Victorian Dad

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PostSubject: Re: 57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyTue Jan 05, 2016 5:00 pm

waterloo50 wrote:
Victorian Dad

That's pretty much the same as I have read, I can't seem to find anything that goes into any detailed description. Where did you find your account? did you find it online or are you quoting from a book?

Regards
waterloo

It was included in a listing for a medal to the 57th that I saw up for sale.
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Victorian Dad

Victorian Dad

Posts : 41
Join date : 2015-12-27
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PostSubject: Re: 57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyTue Jan 05, 2016 5:01 pm

90th wrote:
Hi Guys
Not sure you'll find to much detail apart from what you've already sourced , possibly in the Regimental History , I assume they have one ? .
90th agree


That's such a shame!!!

Just out of interest has anyone got any photographs of members of the Regiment wearing their medals after the campaign?
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rusteze

rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: 57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyTue Jan 05, 2016 6:11 pm

Victorian Dad

There is something on the 57th in the official "Narrative of Field Operations connected with the Zulu War" about the action at Gingindlovu and also their part in Clarke's column - but it is not very much. There is also a description and map in Laband and Thompsons "Illustrated Guide to the Anglo Zulu War". I think the lack of regimental detail is simply a reflection of the battle being fought pretty much at arms length, with the Zulu forces getting no closer than 20 yards to the firing lines. Laband mentions that at one stage the 60th waivered a little and were re-inforced by some of the 90th. Nothing specific being said about the 57th probably just means they did their job effectively.

I note that your prime interest is in police medals to H Division. I don't have any special knowledge of that subject myself but I think we are probably talking Jack the Ripper territory are we not? Was your man's Spitalfields background the reason you obtained his medals?  My family lived in the same part of the world in mid Victorian times and although little of the neighbourhood is now left I always feel drawn towards the area and its murky history.

All the best
Steve
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: 57th Regt at the Battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyTue Jan 05, 2016 9:40 pm

Hi Victorian Dad
Here is a link from this forum showing a 57th Regt Medal to a Private j.Bunn and an original Glengarry Badge .

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Scroll down its the 9th one down from memory .
90th Salute
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: 57th Regt at the Battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyTue Jan 05, 2016 9:41 pm

forgot to mention there is also a close up of the Badge the next pic down .
Cheers 90th Very Happy
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xhosa2000

xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: 57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyTue Jan 05, 2016 10:02 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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xhosa2000

xhosa2000

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PostSubject: Re: 57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyTue Jan 05, 2016 11:44 pm

A history of the 57th West Middlesex regt of foot 1755-1881
was written by Woollright H HH, in 1893. a 1st ed is available,
although reprints are available too. xhosa
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90th

90th

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PostSubject: 57th Regt at the Battle of Gingindlovu   57th Regiment at the battle of Gingindlovu EmptyThu Jan 07, 2016 9:18 am

Hi Les
I've sent you a pm .
Cheers 90th Salute
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