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 The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion

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Petty Officer Tom

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PostSubject: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 12:46 am

The following notice appeared in the Naval and Military Gazette, March 10, 1880.  “Admiralty, 2nd March, 1880.  The announcement contained in the London Gazette of the 7th November, 1879, of the promotion of Lieutenant Frederick Ralph Carr to the rank of Commander in Her Majesty’s Fleet, is hereby cancelled.”  That was all that was written – there was no reason given, or any further explanation.
 
F.W. Carr was the Senior Lieutenant of HMS Boadicea who went ashore at Durban in command of the ship’s contingent of 10 officers and 218 men on March 18, 1879.  He marched his men to the Lower Tugela where they became part of the Eshowe Relief.  Lieutenant Carr was in command of that part of the Naval Brigade attached to the 2nd Division.  On April 1 the Relief Column arrived at Gingindlovu, where a laager was formed with Lieutenant Carr in command of the Northwest Corner of the square with a portion of the Naval Brigade and two rocket tubes.  On the morning of April 2 the Battle of Gingindlovu was fought, and the Zulu attackers were driven off.  The following morning Lieutenant Carr with 40 navy men, a Gatling, his two rocket tubes, and 2 companies of marines set out for Eshowe, with a detached force under Lord Chelmsford to relieve Colonel Pearson’s besieged force.
 
After the Relief of Eshowe Lieutenant Carr returned to the Gingindlovu camp where he remained until about April 8.  On April 11 Carr was at Fort Tenedos in command of about 150 men from Shah, Boadicea and Tenedos.  On May 9 Commander Francis Romilly arrived at Fort Chelmsford where he took command of that part of HMS Boadicea men.  On May 23rd Lieutenant Carr was still Fort Tenedos in command of the “Boadicea” men there, and he remained at the Lower Tugela when Crealock’s Column set out for Port Durnford on the 17th of June.  On June 30 he completed his time ashore.  On November 7th Carr was mentioned for promotion to Commander.  At the early part of December Lieutenant Carr was sent back to England.

An article from a correspondent appeared in the Hampshire Telegraph and Sussex Chronicle on February 28, 1880.  In the article, written 2 days earlier, the correspondent stated “At the time when honours and rewards were conferred upon officers who had taken part in the Zulu Campaign, there was one named for promotion much to the astonishment of those who were on the spot and knew how he had conducted himself when landed with the Naval Brigade.  But however openly such a subject might be talked of in the Clubs, it was far too serious a matter for me to mention in this correspondence, for without naming the particular officer, to comment on the case would only have been a reflection on the conduct of all who were engaged with the enemy.  Matters have, I now hear on excellent authority, come to a climax, and shortly the non-confirmation of the promotion will make plain to the Service that the Admiralty has, after making the fullest enquiry, come to the conclusion that the officer in question is unworthy of the reward which it was decided to confer upon him.  The only surprise of those returned from the Cape will be that the Board should have taken so long in ascertaining the real facts of the case.  I image that the officer placed under this shadow will deem it advisable to request that he may be placed on half-pay and be subsequently retired, for the action now taken will make his position in the Service almost, if not quite, untenable.

On March 2, 1880 the Admiralty advised that “the announcement contained in the London Gazette of the 7th November, 1879, of the promotion of Lieutenant Frederick Ralph Carr to the rank of Commander in Her Majesty’s Fleet, is hereby cancelled.

The Pall Mall, March 8th carried an article, containing in part, “the cancelling of the promotion of a Commander who was included in the Gazette of November 6th (sic), for services with the Naval Brigade, he having been mentioned in despatches both by Commodore Richards and Lord Chelmsford, was spoken of by me some time ago  as being inevitable.”

On April 17, 1884 Lieutenant Carr retired from the Navy

Petty Officer Tom
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PostSubject: The Cancellation of Lt Carr's Promtion    The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 3:20 am

Interesting to say the least , I wonder how Carr reacted in the Square at Gingindlovhu ? . The way the statement reads in my mind is that he may well have shirked his duties during the attack , although that's reading between the lines , I may be casting unfounded Aspersions on Carr's character ?
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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 5:19 am

Morning Tom
Sounds like an ongoing series of events, Im going to have a search through the SA data base to see if there is any mention of him. Would be really interesting to find out his 'offence'.
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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 11:32 am

Bit of a mystery. Just by way of background, his brother Henry John Carr was also a Lt. RN at the same time as Frederick and went on to become an Admiral and Superintendent of Devonport Dockyard. Frederick appears in the 1891 census as a retired Lt. Royal Navy. He did not marry and died in 1908 leaving £7,356 to his brothers. While there is no doubt something untoward occurred during the AZW it was plainly not enough to have him drummed out the service or even demoted from his current rank, just not promoted. So I doubt it had anything to do with his conduct during the battle but perhaps something along the lines of "ungentlemanly behaviour".

Steve


Last edited by rusteze on Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Frank Allewell

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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 1:30 pm

Yo hoh ho and a bottle of rum.
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 1:39 pm

You might need the bottle of rum if your going mountaineering at RD next week!

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 2:06 pm

Gary,
If it was a problem with his conduct in battle, I don’t think he would have been given command of that portion of the Naval Brigade that accompanied Lord Chelmsford to Eshowe.  I am more inclined to think it had to do with him being sent to the rear to command the sick and invalided at Fort Tugela; and then to be replaced by Commander Romilly and left behind on the march to Port Durnford.

Frank,
I wish you the best of luck with the research.  I am very curious.

Steve,
I have Frederick Ralph Carr on the 1871 census residing with his parents, his brother Lieutenant Henry John Carr, another brother, 3 sisters, a niece, and servants.  His occupation is listed as “Lieutenant in the Royal Navy.”  In June 1871 he was sent to gunnery school aboard HMS Excellent.  After his death F.R. Carr’s heart was pierced with a knife by a surgeon, as requested by him in his will, and afterwards his body was cremated.

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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 3:22 pm

Quite right Tom, I meant to quote the 1891 census where he appears as retired.

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 7:12 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Officers and men of HMS Shah and H.M.S. Boadicea, Fort Tenedos, Zululand, 1879 with Gatling--Lt. Carr standing second from left; Petty Officer 1st Class H. Ransome seated behind Gatling; Lt. Drummond standing third from left; Midshipman Hewett seated in front of Gatling left; Surgeon Vasey standing fourth from left; Lt. Hobkirk standing seventh from left; Surgeon Connell standing eighth from left; Ordinary Seaman R. Goodall standing ninth from left

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The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 10:25 pm

Admiralty, 19th April, 1884. '

IN accordance with the provisions of Her Majesty's Order in Council of 22nd February, 1870— Lieutenant Frederick Ralph Carr has been placed on the Retired List of his rank. Dated 17th April, 1884
.

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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyTue Feb 14, 2017 10:36 pm

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Source: The Zulu War. The Dispatch Series.
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The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion Empty
PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptySun Sep 03, 2017 11:42 pm

Update on The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr’s Promotion

In the remarks section of Frederick Carr’s service record I came across the following for 23 Feb 1880:  “deprived of Commission as Commander on account of being incapable on the 17th June of doing duty or advancing in the direction of the enemy from excessive drinking, but allowed to revert to position as Lieutenant.  (See papers & reports of officers.)”  (Source:  ADM 196/36/538.)

The papers & reports of the officers were not included in the remarks.  They would make interesting reading.

Tom
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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyMon Sep 04, 2017 10:06 am

Great find Tom

Salute
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyMon Sep 04, 2017 1:24 pm

Well done indeed. So, that Mr Allewell got it right on 14 Feb.
Steve
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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyMon Sep 04, 2017 2:19 pm

Just out of interest
I read somewhere that one of the brothers of Smith-Dorrien who was an Officer in the Royal Navy lost several months of seniority for drinking.

Cheers.

Frédéric
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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyMon Sep 04, 2017 3:32 pm

ymob,

Your memory serves you well. That was Henry Theophilus Smith-Dorrien, Lieutenant, HMS Malabar. On September 12, 1879 he was tried by court-martial for “Drunkeness.” He was sentenced to ‘forfeit 6 months seniority and dismissed from his ship.”

Henry T. Smith-Dorrien did not serve in the Zulu War.

Tom
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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyMon Sep 04, 2017 4:12 pm

Steve
I'm astounded, and a trifle miffed, that you actually doubted me? Not getting involved
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rusteze

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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyMon Sep 04, 2017 4:56 pm

I bow to your direct knowledge of such things. Just testing the grog hasn't been watered too much your honour!

Steve
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PostSubject: Re: The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion   The Cancellation of Lieutenant Carr's Promoion EmptyTue Sep 05, 2017 8:56 am

Petty Officer Tom wrote:
ymob,

Your memory serves you well.  That was Henry Theophilus Smith-Dorrien, Lieutenant, HMS Malabar.  On September 12, 1879 he was tried by court-martial for “Drunkeness.”  He was sentenced to ‘forfeit 6 months seniority and dismissed from his ship.”

Henry T. Smith-Dorrien did not serve in the Zulu War.

Tom

Bonjour Tom,
Thank you for the informations given.
Cheers
Frédéric
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