WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn:General Lord Chelmsford: For a savage, as for a child, chastisement is sometimes a kindness. Sir Henry Bartle Frere: Let us hope, General, that this will be the final solution to the Zulu problem.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Read and write?
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyThu Dec 07, 2023 5:48 pm by ADMIN

» Marius Jespersen from Faroe Islands
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyTue Dec 05, 2023 3:53 pm by briannorris@sos.co.za

» Private J. McCrudden 1/13 Foot
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyTue Dec 05, 2023 8:52 am by briannorris@sos.co.za

» Newspaper men (journalists) in the AZW
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyMon Dec 04, 2023 10:42 am by Stefaan

» John Ford Webster in court
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySun Dec 03, 2023 7:40 am by Eddie

» The Messenger
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySun Dec 03, 2023 7:31 am by Eddie

» George Hocking
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySat Dec 02, 2023 8:17 pm by 1879graves

» Mainwaring 1879 map.
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyWed Nov 29, 2023 7:38 pm by SRB1965

» NNH losses at Isandlwana
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyWed Nov 29, 2023 12:49 pm by WeekendWarrior

» Did Grant leave another account of the RB?
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyTue Nov 28, 2023 7:35 am by SRB1965

» Who paid the ferryman or men?
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyTue Nov 28, 2023 6:45 am by Stefaan

» It's all Sir Garnet....except for the Doctor
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySun Nov 26, 2023 3:43 pm by Julian Whybra

» Lance Corporal William Halley, Rorke's Drift Defender
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySun Nov 26, 2023 3:40 pm by Julian Whybra

» Trooper Christian Hayhow, Natal Carbineers
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Nov 24, 2023 10:48 pm by aussie inkosi

» Identification
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Nov 24, 2023 2:04 pm by SRB1965

» Sporting guns
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Nov 24, 2023 6:38 am by Stefaan

» Commenwealth War Graves Commission
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyThu Nov 23, 2023 9:10 am by Kenny

» Capt Francis Emberton.
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyWed Nov 22, 2023 4:08 am by Guest57

» List of Zulu War Veterans who emigrated to Australia and New Zealand
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyTue Nov 21, 2023 7:31 pm by John Young

» Spare Weapons at Rorke's Drift
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyTue Nov 21, 2023 8:29 am by John Young

» Captain The Honourable Julian Grenfell
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyMon Nov 20, 2023 7:50 pm by 1879graves

» Lieutenant Richard Hawes MacCarthy, 2nd/4th Regiment
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyMon Nov 20, 2023 6:55 am by krish

» Grave of James Ruck
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySun Nov 19, 2023 6:08 pm by Eddie

» Eye Witness RD
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySun Nov 19, 2023 5:08 pm by Eddie

» Bettingtons Horse
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySun Nov 19, 2023 2:35 pm by John Young

» Wanted - Looking For Zulu Items
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyMon Nov 13, 2023 5:48 pm by sekukuni

» A farewell message
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyMon Nov 13, 2023 10:09 am by Julian Whybra

» In deference to other online platforms discussing the history of the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySun Nov 12, 2023 3:50 pm by Julian Whybra

» Drivers of the waggons?
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySat Nov 11, 2023 11:22 pm by Julian Whybra

» Old School Members Retreating.
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySat Nov 11, 2023 7:18 pm by ADMIN

» Biscuit boxes at iSandlwana
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySat Nov 11, 2023 12:53 pm by SRB1965

» NO TORTURE OF 'LITTLE DRUMMER BOYS' (OR ANYONE ELSE) AT ISANDLWANA
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Nov 10, 2023 6:28 pm by Julian Whybra

» Zulu accounts of certain aspects of Isandlwana
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Nov 10, 2023 5:52 pm by SRB1965

» Zulu Dawn/Zulu - New Immortals Film The Way Forward ?
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Nov 10, 2023 9:37 am by Julian Whybra

» Naval Brigade Research Request
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyWed Nov 08, 2023 2:58 pm by Petty Officer Tom

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
December 2023
MonTueWedThuFriSatSun
    123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031
CalendarCalendar
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Top posting users this month
RickB24
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_leftUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? BarUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_right 
Eddie
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_leftUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? BarUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_right 
90th
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_leftUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? BarUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_right 
colinmcgee
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_leftUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? BarUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_right 
1879graves
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_leftUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? BarUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_right 
Bill8183
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_leftUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? BarUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_right 
briannorris@sos.co.za
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_leftUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? BarUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_right 
John Young
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_leftUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? BarUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_right 
SRB1965
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_leftUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? BarUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_right 
Stefaan
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_leftUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? BarUnidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Bar_right 
New topics
» The Messenger
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySun Dec 03, 2023 1:16 am by Eddie

» Newspaper men (journalists) in the AZW
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Dec 01, 2023 12:54 pm by Stefaan

» George Hocking
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyThu Nov 30, 2023 3:50 pm by RickB24

» Who paid the ferryman or men?
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyMon Nov 27, 2023 10:41 am by Stefaan

» Did Grant leave another account of the RB?
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyMon Nov 27, 2023 10:13 am by SRB1965

» NNH losses at Isandlwana
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySun Nov 26, 2023 3:53 pm by SRB1965

» Private J. McCrudden 1/13 Foot
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Nov 24, 2023 11:22 pm by General Greene

» Identification
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Nov 24, 2023 10:41 am by Stefaan

» Sporting guns
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyThu Nov 23, 2023 9:54 pm by Stefaan

Similar topics
Zero tolerance to harassment and bullying.
Due to recent events on this forum, we have now imposed a zero tolerance to harassment and bullying. All reports will be treated seriously, and will lead to a permanent ban of both membership and IP address. Any member blatantly corresponding in a deliberate and provoking manner will be removed from the forum as quickly as possible after the event.  If any members are being harassed behind the scenes PM facility by any member/s here at 1879zuluwar.com please do not hesitate to forward the offending text.  We are all here to communicate and enjoy the various discussions and information on the Anglo Zulu War of 1879. Opinions will vary, you will agree and disagree with one another, we will have debates, and so it goes. There is no excuse for harassment or bullying of anyone by another person on this site. The above applies to the main frame areas of the forum. The ring which is the last section on the forum, is available to those members who wish to partake in slagging matches. That section cannot be viewed by guests and only viewed by members that wish to do so. 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
 

 Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?

Go down 
5 posters
AuthorMessage
Tim Needham

Tim Needham


Posts : 300
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Cornwall

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyWed Jul 05, 2017 9:27 pm

I've come across a couple of death notices supposedly relating to men killed in action at Isandlwana, and wondered if anyone else has further information - I can't find either in any of the casualty lists;

The Cornishman, 03 Apr 1879:
NICHOLLS, Jan 22, killed at Isandula, South Africa, Mr. Phillip William Nicholls, 2-24th Regiment, of Poole, Dorset (formerly of Redruth,) grandson of the late Mr. Phillip Williams, of Treneer(?) Cottage, Penzance, aged 28 years.

Western Times, 26 May 1879:
PERRING.-Jan. 22, killed at the battle of Isanhlwana, Mr. J.H.C. Perring, of Stokefleming, aged 29.

Either/both could have of course enlisted under false names, but I'd be interested to know whether anyone has come across these individuals before.

Regards,

Tim
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves


Posts : 3358
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyWed Jul 05, 2017 10:41 pm

Hi Tim

With regards to Nicholls, he could have been the following:

NAME Nicholas Walter
RANK Private
REGIMENT 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot 1st Battalion
He was killed in action at the Battle of Isandhlwana on 22nd January 1879. He attested at Newport, Monmouthshire on 4th October 1875, aged 18 years. His effects were claimed by next of kin. Medal and Clasp ‘1879’. His regimental service number was 648.

Just a thought.


Last edited by 1879graves on Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
Tim Needham

Tim Needham


Posts : 300
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Cornwall

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyThu Jul 06, 2017 9:09 pm

Hello Andy,

The suggestion is certainly as good as any other, however as neither the surname, first name or even battalion seem to match up the chances are it's a bit of a stab in the dark....

If he was indeed killed at Isandlwana with the 24th, the chances are that his enlisted name was an alias as it doesn't seem to feature in the medal roll.

Regards,

Tim
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves


Posts : 3358
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyThu Jul 06, 2017 10:02 pm

Hi Tim

It was just a stab in the dark....

I will keep looking and keep you updated.

Andy
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
Tim Needham

Tim Needham


Posts : 300
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Cornwall

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyThu Jul 06, 2017 10:14 pm

Thanks Andy,

Regarding Perring, I've emailed the village website of Stoke Fleming (near Dartmouth), hopefully they'll have a resident historian who may be able to shed more light on this individual.

Regards,

Tim
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-02

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyThu Jul 06, 2017 10:39 pm

There is something of a lead to follow with Nicholls based on his grandfather Phillip Williams of Treneer. Treneer is part of Penzance and a Reverend Anthony Williams was vicar. He died in 1816. I would guess that the "Nicholls" name comes in a couple of generations later. So I reckon the report is correct - but what name he used in the army is another thing!

Steve
Back to top Go down
Petty Officer Tom

Petty Officer Tom


Posts : 347
Join date : 2017-02-05
Location : Texas, U.S.A.

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Jul 07, 2017 2:48 pm

Tim,

I spent a large part of yesterday going through old newspapers searching for “Phillip William Nicholls” and found the following notice of death.  “NICHOLLS – Killed at Isandula South Africa, Jan. 22, Mr. Philip William Nicholls, 24th Regiment, of Poole, Dorset (formerly of Redruth), grandson of the late Mr. Phillip Williams of Treneer Cottage, Penzance, aged 28.” (Source:  “The Royal Cornwall Gazette”, Friday, April 4, 1879)  The notice is identical to the one you posted except the battalion number was left out.

On February 6th, 1879 W. Bellairs, Colonel, Deputy-Adjutant-General released a full list of the killed at the Isandula disaster.  Among those of the 1/24th were “F. Nicholas (Rorke’s Drift) and “Wm. Nicholas” (Source:  The Leeds Mercury, Tuesday March 18, 1879)

Another list of those killed at Isandula names the two men from the 1/24th as “F. Nicholls” and the other as “Nicholls”. (Source:  The Belfast News-Letter, Friday, March 7, 1879)  No first initial was given in the article.)

The Lieutenant Chard’s muster roll of the defenders lists among those killed of the 1/24th was a private named “Nicholls.”  Source:  http://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/ChardRoll.html

The Rorke’sdriftvc.com website has a roll of those present at Rorke’s Drift 22/23 January, 1879 compiled by Julian Whybra and Norman Holme.  On the list for the 1st Battalion, 24th is “Nicholas, Edward. Private. 25B/625, killed in action 22 January 1879”

I have checked the Medal Rolls for the 1st and 2nd Battalions of the 24th, and found there were no “Nicholls” in either battalion.  The closest names to Nicholls in the 1st/24th are “625 Nicholas, E.” and “648 Nicholas, W.” (This is the Walter Nicholas posted by 1879graves.)  The closed name to Nicholls in the 2nd/24th is “Nicholson, B.”

A lot of records were lost at Isandula which delayed the releasing of the names of those killed.  The changes in the spelling of names could possibly have occurred as a result.  Looking at a couple of genealogy sites I found that the names of Nichols, Nicholls, Nicholas and Nicholson are all variants of the same name.

1879graves, do you have the service record for 625 E. Nicholas?  They might provide a lead.

I also checked on the name “J.H.C. Perring” in the medal rolls and could not find him in either battalion of the 24th or in any of the European colonial forces that were present at Isandula.

Tom
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves


Posts : 3358
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Jul 07, 2017 7:04 pm

Petty Officer Tom wrote:
 "On the list for the 1st Battalion, 24th is “Nicholas, Edward. Private. 25B/625, killed in action 22 January 1879”

1879graves, do you have the service record for 625 E. Nicholas?  They might provide a lead.

Hi Petty Officer Tom

As private 25B/625 Edward Nicholas was killed in action, there would be no service record for him.

Salute
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
Tim Needham

Tim Needham


Posts : 300
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Cornwall

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyWed Jul 12, 2017 9:34 pm

Just to confuse things a bit more, I've come across an article in the Aberdeen Press & Journal (6 March 1879) with the heading 'Official List of Killed at Isandula'; amongst the names are two men with the surname Nicholls (one with an initial of 'F', the other without any initial) - similar to PO Tom, above.

I've also had a look at my photos of the regimental campaign memorial in Brecon Cathedral and can just make out a 'Nicholls' (with what looks like an initial of 'E') in the 1st Battalion section; this may be a miss-spelling of 'Nicholas' as there was a Pte E. Nicholas (25B/625) killed at Rorke's Drift.

Regards,

Tim
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves


Posts : 3358
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyThu Jul 13, 2017 7:33 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Western Times 27 May 1879

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Births Sep 1849

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
1861 Census

Could this be our man?
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
Tim Needham

Tim Needham


Posts : 300
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Cornwall

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyThu Jul 13, 2017 10:19 pm

Andy,

Good finds - the dates seem to tie in with his age of 29, and the middle name 'Cole' obviously seems to explain the second middle initial in the death notice; I'll try to get to the churchyard at Stoke Fleming just to see if there are any family headstones there at some point.

Regards,

Tim
Back to top Go down
Tim Needham

Tim Needham


Posts : 300
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Cornwall

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyThu Jul 13, 2017 11:14 pm

Hi again Andy,

Just found this link to baptisms at Stoke Fleming church - if you scroll down to the Perrings you'll find a James Cole Perring being baptised 24 June 1849 - parents Thomas and Hannah Tuckerman?

http://www.our4bears.net/parishes/Stoke_Fleming/SFleming_bap.htm

Also, just found an email address for someone who researches the Perring families of south Devon, so fingers crossed he'll have some information!

Regards,

Tim
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves


Posts : 3358
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Jul 14, 2017 12:41 am

Hi Tim

If you find anything or get any replies, please do keep us all informed.

Andy
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
1879graves

1879graves


Posts : 3358
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Jul 14, 2017 12:46 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
1851 Census
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
Tim Needham

Tim Needham


Posts : 300
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Cornwall

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Jul 14, 2017 9:49 pm



Andy/Tom/Steve,

I've had an email back from Mike Perring with some interesting (although confusing!) developments:

Hi Tim
 
I’d say that J H C Perring was indeed James Cole Perring baptised 24/06/1849 at Stoke Fleming of parents Thomas Perring (labourer, born 1824) & Hannah Tuckerman Cole. The ‘H’ may be a typing error?
 
James is living with his parents in Stoke Fleming at the time of the 1851 census. In the 1861 census, he is a farm servant living at Ash Farm, Stoke Fleming and in the 1871 census – and of interest to you – he is a Royal Marine private living at Royal Marine Barracks, Forton, Gosport, Hampshire.
 
I have no evidence of James Cole after the 1871 census, which ties in nicely with his death at Isandlwana in 1879. Out of curiosity I looked up this battle online and the part the Royal Marines played in it. What I found suggested they arrived in South Africa and were immediately sent back to Britain – so how could James have died at Isandlwana? Obviously there’s a story here but I’ll leave that for you to investigate.


As Mike says, the fact that James was serving with the Royal Marines doesn't seem to fit with him being killed at Isandlwana. I did check the medal roll and could find no Royal Marine with the surname Perring, so there doesn't seem to be any corroborating evidence that James Perring served in Zululand, let alone died in battle - which begs the question, who put the death notice in the paper (presumably a family member?) and on what grounds did they believe that he had been killed?

If the newspaper notice is accurate, the only thing I can think of is that he perhaps deserted from the Royal Marines prior to the Zulu War and re-joined another ill-fated unit under an assumed name and was killed (total speculation on my part!)

Tom- do you happen to have access to records of RM desertions around this time?

Regards,

Tim
 
Back to top Go down
Petty Officer Tom

Petty Officer Tom


Posts : 347
Join date : 2017-02-05
Location : Texas, U.S.A.

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyFri Jul 14, 2017 11:30 pm

Tim,

I looked up the 1871 census records for James Perring.  The man listed as a Private Royal Marine from Devon, Stoke Fleming was “James Pering” of the Portsmouth Division.  There was no middle name, or initial, on the record.

The marines that Mike Perring referred to as having arrived in South Africa and immediately sent back were the Marine Battalion.  The Marine Battalion arrived at Simon’s Town, South Africa aboard HMS Jumna on 7 July 1879 and departed for England on 24 July 1879. (six months after Isandlwana.)  They had one man who died on arrival at Simon’s Bay.  He was Private James Harris of the Chatham Division.  I, unfortunately, do not have a roll of the marines who formed the battalion.

I also checked the medal rolls for the marines who were serving aboard ship, or with the Naval Brigade, during the war.  As you, I was not able to find him there.

I could not find any record of a James Perring having deserted.

Tom
Back to top Go down
Tim Needham

Tim Needham


Posts : 300
Join date : 2011-10-18
Location : Cornwall

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySat Jul 15, 2017 9:42 am

Thanks Tom - I would imagine a Royal Marine's service record would contain the details of any desertion?

Regards,

Tim
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves


Posts : 3358
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySat Jul 15, 2017 9:46 am

From Mike Perring.

James is living with his parents in Stoke Fleming at the time of the 1851 census [attached 1851-UK-042]. In the 1861 census, he is a farm servant living at Ash Farm, Stoke Fleming [attached 1861-UK-068] and in the 1871 census – and of interest to you – he is a Royal Marine private living at Royal Marine Barracks, Forton, Gosport, Hampshire [attached 1871-UK-151 & HAMRG10_1150_1153-0571].

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
1851-UK-042

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
1861-UK-068

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
HAMRG10_1150_1153-0571

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
1871-UK-151

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
James Cole Perring baptised 24/06/1849
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-02

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySat Jul 15, 2017 10:56 am

A few more pieces of circumstantial evidence.

1. Back in Stoke Fleming in 1871 the census shows that James' parents have a visitor, Dianah Cole, a widow aged 79. I would guess that is where the Cole name comes from (his grandmother?).

2. Another Perring family tree (see below) shows a James Cole Perring Bullen born in 1883 the son of Edward Bullen and Susan Haddy Perring. Named in memory of James Cole Perring perhaps? All of these are Stoke Fleming Perrings.

3. I too found the Royal Marine in the 1851 census but could not tie him in with Isandhlwana (although it does look like our man) - there does not appear to be a RM service record for that name either.

Just a thought, is Isandhlwana the red herring, could we have a Royal Marine killed in Zululand in early 1879 with another column and the newspaper has just assumed it was at Isandhlwana?
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
Steve
Back to top Go down
Petty Officer Tom

Petty Officer Tom


Posts : 347
Join date : 2017-02-05
Location : Texas, U.S.A.

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySat Jul 15, 2017 3:10 pm

Steve,

Here is a list of all the Royal Marines that that died while serving with the Naval Brigade.

William Seddon, Gunner (RMA), Pneumonia, 2 Jan ’79. Lower Tugela
W. J. Lumar, Private (RMLI), Sunstroke, 31 Jan ’79, Lower Tugela
William Stagg, Private (RMLI), Pneumonia, 16 Mar ’79, Fort Eshowe
Phillip Crompton, Gunner (RMA), Dysentery, 1 May ’79, Durban
Patrick O’Brinns, Private (RMLI), Enteric Fever, 21 Jun ’79, Herwin Hospital

I, also, was not able to find a service record for a marine with the name James Cole Perring – nor any record of his attestation.

Tim,

The “Police Gazette” contained a list of all deserters.  There was no James Perring listed.

Tom
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-02

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptySat Jul 15, 2017 4:14 pm

Hi Tom
Have sent you an email on a related matter.
Steve
Back to top Go down
rai




Posts : 1069
Join date : 2009-10-16

Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?   Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties? EmptyTue Dec 06, 2022 8:35 am

Hi All,
Phillip William Nicholls born 1851 Redruth confirms the newspaper. Strangely a W P Nicholls is buried Stoke Demerel Plymouth District in 1879.
As for Perring nothing concrete.
Rai KLH
Back to top Go down
 
Unidentified Isandlwana Casualties?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Unidentified Spear
» Unidentified Hlobane Casualty?
» Unidentified 24th Officer

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: DID THEY OR DIDN'T THEY TAKE PART IN THE ZULU WAR-
Jump to: