WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Zulu: Lieutenant John Chard:What's our strength? Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead:Seven officers including surgeon, commissaries and so on; Adendorff now I suppose; wounded and sick 36, fit for duty 97 and about 40 native levies. Not much of an army for you
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  PublicationsPublications  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Lieutenant O'Connell, 60th Rifles. 1880 Isandlwana map.
Tunics from the dead EmptyToday at 4:32 pm by Frank Allewell

» More From FindaGrave website
Tunics from the dead EmptyToday at 8:09 am by rai

» Orders to laager at Isandhlwana
Tunics from the dead EmptyYesterday at 10:36 pm by John Young

» 2nd Lieutenant Henry Wilson Lovett, 1st/13th
Tunics from the dead EmptyYesterday at 3:16 pm by John Young

» Wagons at Isandlwana
Tunics from the dead EmptyYesterday at 9:25 am by SirGromit

» Brevet Major. Henry Spalding of Rorke's Drift and Information for Columns
Tunics from the dead EmptySun May 24, 2020 10:48 am by Julian Whybra

» 1071 SGT A.H. STILL 12th LANCERS
Tunics from the dead EmptySun May 24, 2020 8:50 am by Julian Whybra

» An Old Zulu Warrior
Tunics from the dead EmptySat May 23, 2020 11:48 am by SRB1965

» Macmillans Magagazine
Tunics from the dead EmptyFri May 22, 2020 6:45 am by Frank Allewell

» Gunner rank within the Royal Engineers ????
Tunics from the dead EmptyThu May 21, 2020 10:15 am by 1879graves

» How to find genealogy of Lt Dyer 2/24th Kia isandlwana
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue May 19, 2020 4:58 pm by rai

» Richard Mansell ADAMS
Tunics from the dead EmptySun May 17, 2020 1:21 pm by CathyW

» Hon. William Fitzwilliam Elliot.
Tunics from the dead EmptySat May 16, 2020 3:58 pm by Brin

» 3000 members
Tunics from the dead EmptySat May 16, 2020 9:32 am by ADMIN

» Missing Cairns?
Tunics from the dead EmptyFri May 15, 2020 10:12 pm by Danny1960

Theresa Yelverton
Tunics from the dead Capture aka, Lady Avonmore, of Empress Eugenie pilgrimage notoriety (Isandula Collection)
Anglo-Zulu war: Walking the battlefield of Kambula
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Top posters
90th
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
littlehand
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
ADMIN
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
1879graves
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
rusteze
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
John
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
impi
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Top posting users this month
Frank Allewell
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
John Young
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
1879graves
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
90th
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Danny1960
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
bill cainan 4
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
SirGromit
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
rai
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
SRB1965
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Most active topics
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Durnford was he capable.1
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable.2
Durnford was he capable. 3
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.

 

 Tunics from the dead

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Roselier

Roselier

Posts : 15
Join date : 2017-08-04
Location : Leigh, Kent

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptyFri Aug 18, 2017 9:40 pm

I conducted a search on here by typing 'tunic' but nothing appeared, so my question to the learned people on here is in regard to the tunics taken from the dead at either iSandlwana or indeed Ntombi.

Is there any written evidence or accounts from the actions later during the campaign stating that some Zulus were seen to be wearing captured tunics or is this a bit of artistic licence in contemporary paintings/sketches?
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 788
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySat Aug 19, 2017 8:48 am

Hi,

I have read that is was part of the Zulu war doctoring to wear an item of clothing from someone they had killed (as well as the more documented mutilations etc) until they had returned home, then there was a doctoring ceremony to cleanse them - when I believe the 'item' was discarded.

They were not allowed contact with 'civvies' when returning from war until they had been 'doctored' - not even their wives.

I spose at Khambula, there could have been warriors wearing something taken at Hlobane or Intombi and at Rorkes Drift, something taken at Isandlwana but I doubt if things would have been worn long term.

I often wonder what happened to all the stuff looted from Isandlwana (not weapons but general 'tat') - I reckon an Antiques Roadshow programme set in Zululand would be interesting.

The Anatomy of the Zulu Army by Ian Knight, is a good book for this sort of subject - I will get it out of storage (the loft!) and look through it for contemporary accounts.

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
Roselier

Roselier

Posts : 15
Join date : 2017-08-04
Location : Leigh, Kent

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySat Aug 19, 2017 2:14 pm

That's actually one of the few books I don't own myself! You'd think it would be mentioned by someone if it did happen as surely you'd think twice, at first, about shooting someone wearing a red tunic!
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 788
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySat Aug 19, 2017 2:43 pm

I can't help thinking that the average Zulu wearing a red coat, may well have carried a 'shoot at me' placard......

Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 788
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySat Aug 19, 2017 2:58 pm

There is reference on Morris's WOTS on page 524 (on line version) about someone called Harrison encountering 3 Zulus with captured coats......but I dunno the original source.

Lonsdale also mentions it when he rode into the camp at Isandlwana but that was in the aftermath of the battle.
Back to top Go down
Roselier

Roselier

Posts : 15
Join date : 2017-08-04
Location : Leigh, Kent

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySat Aug 19, 2017 3:16 pm

Yes, immediately after a battle definitely. You would think that by wearing a red tunic in battle you would also run the risk of a 'friendly' stabbing or club to the bonce!
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 788
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySat Aug 19, 2017 5:49 pm

I don't think that a Zulu in a redcoat, would be at too much risk from a friendly fire/swat incident.

Interestingly enough, the Natal Pioneers wore an old fashioned army surplus redcoat and the original plans/designs for the NNIC called for redcoats (and firearms) but this never came to fruition - one on the grounds of expense/supply and the other because of 'white' paranoia.....

If you think about there would have been an awful lot of Zulus hoofing around in all manner and colours of European items/coats soon after Isandlwana.

Apparently the Zulus did not like wearing items of clothing with too much blood on them.

Hlumula and qaqa (and war doctoring) are a fascinating part of Zulu warfare (well, I find them fascinating) but I am not sure how closely the rules were followed by the average Zulu - Melvill and Coghills bodies still had their jackets on but there is still debate over who killed them (Natal Zulus or Zululand Zulus)

Cheers

Sime

Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySat Aug 19, 2017 8:36 pm

Here's some evidence from my collection. But I think it has much more to do with army surplus than romantic ideas of battle trophies.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Steve
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 788
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySat Aug 19, 2017 9:34 pm

Hi Steve,

I am no expert on uniforms but the tunic looks like old fashioned ones worn by the Natal Pioneers, particularly the cuff shape - although, it actually looks like what is called the 'jam pot' cuff, which was a later one (1880s?) - depends if there is a loop on the other side.

But I dunno about the lack of piping.....

Do you know the date of the photograph?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I have it in the back of my mind that the NPs had dragoon tunics but I am not sure if I have dreamed it.

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze

Posts : 2881
Join date : 2010-06-02

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySat Aug 19, 2017 10:00 pm

This one is not directly dateable but the album in which it sits is 1875-1880. It indicates to me that worn out military clothing was commonplace. I am sure that had there been any suspicion of looting then the poor chap would not have survived long enough to have his picture taken. I would guess he is a Natal Zulu and I don't think he belongs to any military unit, could be NNC but I doubt it.

Steve
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 788
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySat Aug 19, 2017 11:05 pm

He appears to be wearing a European type belt as well....I would reckon that you theory, Steve, is not far from the mark.....

Is there anything interesting on the remainder of the photo?

I'm sure I read somewhere that the initial plan to equip the NNIC with tunic was not helped by the fact that 'millet beer' had not helped the waistline of the natives......

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead Empty

Back to top Go down
 
Tunics from the dead
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: