WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu: Colour Sergeant Bourne : [Quoting Psalm 46, v10-11 just before the battle] I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. The Lord of Hosts is with us. Cpl. William Allen : I hope so. As I live and die, I hope so.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Lieutenant General Sir Edward Thomas Henry Hutton KCB
Tunics from the dead EmptyToday at 4:27 am by gardner1879

» EDMUND FOWLER VC
Tunics from the dead EmptyToday at 4:22 am by gardner1879

» Arthur Landon Army Surgeon killed at Majuba
Tunics from the dead EmptyToday at 4:16 am by gardner1879

» Bernard Heygate Army Service Corps
Tunics from the dead EmptyToday at 3:48 am by gardner1879

» Another Mystery Man Major Cunningham
Tunics from the dead EmptyToday at 3:46 am by gardner1879

» Reconnaisance from Rorke's Drift to iSandlwana on the 21st May 1879
Tunics from the dead EmptyToday at 3:24 am by gardner1879

» Anstey's body
Tunics from the dead EmptyYesterday at 7:09 pm by SRB1965

» Henry Turner
Tunics from the dead EmptyYesterday at 6:48 pm by Kenny

» Lt Edgar Anstey - Campaign medal given to Brecon Museum 13/11/11
Tunics from the dead EmptyYesterday at 9:01 am by John Young

» Intombi - Booth's retreat.
Tunics from the dead EmptySat Sep 23, 2023 11:46 pm by SRB1965

» Wanted - Looking For Zulu Items
Tunics from the dead EmptyThu Sep 21, 2023 10:57 pm by ben2000

» Calverley.
Tunics from the dead EmptyThu Sep 21, 2023 7:44 pm by t_p_sheahan@yahoo.co.uk

» Lieut. Walsh and the Siphezi patrol of the 21st January
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue Sep 19, 2023 11:32 pm by aussie inkosi

» Welsh victory.
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue Sep 19, 2023 1:56 am by Julian Whybra

» A Stunning Zulu Victory
Tunics from the dead EmptyMon Sep 18, 2023 12:34 am by SRB1965

» Natal Native Infantry flags
Tunics from the dead EmptySun Sep 17, 2023 6:32 am by SRB1965

» Zulu hairstyles
Tunics from the dead EmptySat Sep 16, 2023 2:24 am by Frank Allewell

» Royal Marine Light Infantry, Chatham
Tunics from the dead EmptyThu Sep 14, 2023 6:13 am by Petty Officer Tom

» Advance Notice of a Fundraising Event, Brecon.
Tunics from the dead EmptyThu Sep 14, 2023 12:08 am by John Young

» Lieutenant Charles Sim Brembridge Parsons N Battery 5th Brigade Royal Artillery
Tunics from the dead EmptyWed Sep 13, 2023 3:54 pm by 90th

» Sergeant Major 765 William Edmund Hogan 2/24th Regiment
Tunics from the dead EmptyWed Sep 13, 2023 3:44 pm by 90th

» Mr W.C. Burns A 'Unique' career
Tunics from the dead EmptyWed Sep 13, 2023 3:40 pm by 90th

» Lieut W.F.D. Cochrane's full account of the battle of iSandlwana
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue Sep 12, 2023 10:31 pm by Julian Whybra

» Zulu War to Boer war. Those who served in both.
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue Sep 12, 2023 8:04 pm by John Young

» Private Robert Alexander Smyth
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue Sep 12, 2023 7:02 pm by gardner1879

» Bertie Hughes drowned at the Manzimnyama River
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue Sep 12, 2023 6:47 pm by gardner1879

» Inspector Hannen. Police inspector committed suicide. Served with Buller
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue Sep 12, 2023 7:40 am by Eddie

» Trooper John William Pleydell NMP killed at iSandlwana death notice
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue Sep 12, 2023 7:32 am by gardner1879

» The road to Rorke's Drift by Mr A.J. Secretair / Secretan
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue Sep 12, 2023 5:34 am by gardner1879

» Captain Henry Moore 2/4th (The Kings Own Royal) Regiment Imperial Mounted Infantry Schermbrucker's account at Rabie's Farm
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue Sep 12, 2023 5:25 am by John Young

» An extract from a letter by a 94th Regiment officer from Ilfracombe
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue Sep 12, 2023 4:24 am by gardner1879

» Brigadier-General Patrick Douglas Jeffreys, C.B., O.B.E.
Tunics from the dead EmptyTue Sep 12, 2023 1:54 am by ADMIN

» Private 25B/293 J H Meredith 1/24th Regiment kia iSandlwana
Tunics from the dead EmptyMon Sep 11, 2023 9:30 pm by sfa

» Lord Chelmsford - A Victorian Hero
Tunics from the dead EmptyMon Sep 11, 2023 9:22 pm by gardner1879

» Brevet Major Ronald Bertram Lane Rifle Brigade
Tunics from the dead EmptyMon Sep 11, 2023 9:20 pm by gardner1879

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
181x240
Top posters
90th
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
littlehand
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
ADMIN
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
gardner1879
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
1879graves
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
John Young
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
rusteze
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
Julian Whybra
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
gardner1879
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Tig Van Milcroft
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
SRB1965
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Eddie
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
John Young
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
90th
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
aussie inkosi
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
ADMIN
Tunics from the dead Bar_leftTunics from the dead BarTunics from the dead Bar_right 
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Adding to the Library
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
martini Natal henry drift Franklin Roll brown harford james Isandlwana Mounted smith Jones anstey 24th horse carbineers Prince 2022 Police 2023 Russell taylor George Harry john
 

 Tunics from the dead

Go down 
3 posters
AuthorMessage
Roselier

Roselier


Posts : 15
Join date : 2017-08-05
Location : Leigh, Kent

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySat Aug 19, 2017 7:40 am

I conducted a search on here by typing 'tunic' but nothing appeared, so my question to the learned people on here is in regard to the tunics taken from the dead at either iSandlwana or indeed Ntombi.

Is there any written evidence or accounts from the actions later during the campaign stating that some Zulus were seen to be wearing captured tunics or is this a bit of artistic licence in contemporary paintings/sketches?
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 922
Join date : 2017-05-14
Age : 58
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySat Aug 19, 2017 6:48 pm

Hi,

I have read that is was part of the Zulu war doctoring to wear an item of clothing from someone they had killed (as well as the more documented mutilations etc) until they had returned home, then there was a doctoring ceremony to cleanse them - when I believe the 'item' was discarded.

They were not allowed contact with 'civvies' when returning from war until they had been 'doctored' - not even their wives.

I spose at Khambula, there could have been warriors wearing something taken at Hlobane or Intombi and at Rorkes Drift, something taken at Isandlwana but I doubt if things would have been worn long term.

I often wonder what happened to all the stuff looted from Isandlwana (not weapons but general 'tat') - I reckon an Antiques Roadshow programme set in Zululand would be interesting.

The Anatomy of the Zulu Army by Ian Knight, is a good book for this sort of subject - I will get it out of storage (the loft!) and look through it for contemporary accounts.

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
Roselier

Roselier


Posts : 15
Join date : 2017-08-05
Location : Leigh, Kent

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySun Aug 20, 2017 12:14 am

That's actually one of the few books I don't own myself! You'd think it would be mentioned by someone if it did happen as surely you'd think twice, at first, about shooting someone wearing a red tunic!
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 922
Join date : 2017-05-14
Age : 58
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySun Aug 20, 2017 12:43 am

I can't help thinking that the average Zulu wearing a red coat, may well have carried a 'shoot at me' placard......

Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 922
Join date : 2017-05-14
Age : 58
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySun Aug 20, 2017 12:58 am

There is reference on Morris's WOTS on page 524 (on line version) about someone called Harrison encountering 3 Zulus with captured coats......but I dunno the original source.

Lonsdale also mentions it when he rode into the camp at Isandlwana but that was in the aftermath of the battle.
Back to top Go down
Roselier

Roselier


Posts : 15
Join date : 2017-08-05
Location : Leigh, Kent

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySun Aug 20, 2017 1:16 am

Yes, immediately after a battle definitely. You would think that by wearing a red tunic in battle you would also run the risk of a 'friendly' stabbing or club to the bonce!
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 922
Join date : 2017-05-14
Age : 58
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySun Aug 20, 2017 3:49 am

I don't think that a Zulu in a redcoat, would be at too much risk from a friendly fire/swat incident.

Interestingly enough, the Natal Pioneers wore an old fashioned army surplus redcoat and the original plans/designs for the NNIC called for redcoats (and firearms) but this never came to fruition - one on the grounds of expense/supply and the other because of 'white' paranoia.....

If you think about there would have been an awful lot of Zulus hoofing around in all manner and colours of European items/coats soon after Isandlwana.

Apparently the Zulus did not like wearing items of clothing with too much blood on them.

Hlumula and qaqa (and war doctoring) are a fascinating part of Zulu warfare (well, I find them fascinating) but I am not sure how closely the rules were followed by the average Zulu - Melvill and Coghills bodies still had their jackets on but there is still debate over who killed them (Natal Zulus or Zululand Zulus)

Cheers

Sime

Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-03

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySun Aug 20, 2017 6:36 am

Here's some evidence from my collection. But I think it has much more to do with army surplus than romantic ideas of battle trophies.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Steve
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 922
Join date : 2017-05-14
Age : 58
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySun Aug 20, 2017 7:34 am

Hi Steve,

I am no expert on uniforms but the tunic looks like old fashioned ones worn by the Natal Pioneers, particularly the cuff shape - although, it actually looks like what is called the 'jam pot' cuff, which was a later one (1880s?) - depends if there is a loop on the other side.

But I dunno about the lack of piping.....

Do you know the date of the photograph?

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I have it in the back of my mind that the NPs had dragoon tunics but I am not sure if I have dreamed it.

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
rusteze

rusteze


Posts : 2871
Join date : 2010-06-03

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySun Aug 20, 2017 8:00 am

This one is not directly dateable but the album in which it sits is 1875-1880. It indicates to me that worn out military clothing was commonplace. I am sure that had there been any suspicion of looting then the poor chap would not have survived long enough to have his picture taken. I would guess he is a Natal Zulu and I don't think he belongs to any military unit, could be NNC but I doubt it.

Steve
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 922
Join date : 2017-05-14
Age : 58
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Tunics from the dead Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tunics from the dead   Tunics from the dead EmptySun Aug 20, 2017 9:05 am

He appears to be wearing a European type belt as well....I would reckon that you theory, Steve, is not far from the mark.....

Is there anything interesting on the remainder of the photo?

I'm sure I read somewhere that the initial plan to equip the NNIC with tunic was not helped by the fact that 'millet beer' had not helped the waistline of the natives......

Cheers

Sime
Back to top Go down
 
Tunics from the dead
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Grass green or bottle green on the 24ths tunics?
» How did he know he was dead.
» The Dead At Isandula.
» Keith Smith Publications.
» Burying the dead at Isandlwana

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: