WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu Dawn quote: “Excuse me, my Lord, there's something I must convey to you. I rode along the track down to Rorke's Drift. The sky above is red with fire. Your orders my Lord? Do we move to the drift?”
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Prince Imperial
Seaman Ainsley EmptyMon Nov 30, 2020 5:18 am by barry

» Rorkes Drift Battle Relics
Seaman Ainsley EmptySat Nov 28, 2020 10:15 am by sstiles

» Best Zulu War Books
Seaman Ainsley EmptyWed Nov 25, 2020 12:00 am by 90th

» George Toplis
Seaman Ainsley EmptyTue Nov 24, 2020 4:46 pm by 1879graves

» 1st Battalion, 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment, 1875
Seaman Ainsley EmptyFri Nov 20, 2020 2:17 am by 90th

» Lt Chard and his sighting of Zulu enemy at Isandlwana
Seaman Ainsley EmptyWed Nov 18, 2020 10:56 am by Frank Allewell

» Rorkes drift Hotel
Seaman Ainsley EmptyWed Nov 18, 2020 10:46 am by Frank Allewell

» Information on Harry Boik Trooper 141 NATAL MOUNTED POLICE
Seaman Ainsley EmptySun Nov 15, 2020 5:39 am by barry

» Lieutenant Chards anxiety-inducing-notes-Battle-Rorkes-Drift
Seaman Ainsley EmptySat Nov 14, 2020 11:58 pm by ADMIN

» John Courtenay Chasman CHADWICK - 1st Class Interpreter
Seaman Ainsley EmptySat Nov 14, 2020 2:46 pm by RoryReynolds

» S/Sgts Appointments/Ranks
Seaman Ainsley EmptyTue Nov 10, 2020 10:45 am by John Young

» Punishment - FLOGGING
Seaman Ainsley EmptyMon Nov 09, 2020 10:04 am by Frank Allewell

» Isandlwana, Last Stands
Seaman Ainsley EmptySun Nov 08, 2020 1:21 pm by 90th

» HMS Active RMA and Kroomen duties
Seaman Ainsley EmptyMon Nov 02, 2020 7:55 pm by Herbie

» Henry William Longcast, Interpreter.
Seaman Ainsley EmptyTue Oct 27, 2020 9:29 am by John Young

» Officers of the 1st Battalion, 24th Regiment circa 1868
Seaman Ainsley EmptyMon Oct 26, 2020 11:31 pm by John Young

» Famous death?
Seaman Ainsley EmptySat Oct 24, 2020 3:38 pm by Frank Allewell

» N/5 Battery RA at Isandlwana
Seaman Ainsley EmptySat Oct 24, 2020 10:20 am by SRB1965

» The Pickets on Mkwene
Seaman Ainsley EmptyFri Oct 23, 2020 11:30 am by Frank Allewell

» Durnford's medical officer
Seaman Ainsley EmptyFri Oct 23, 2020 9:51 am by Julian Whybra

» Victorian HMS SHAH South Africa Zulu Wars Medal William Morrison Royal Navy
Seaman Ainsley EmptyThu Oct 22, 2020 5:37 pm by Danny1960

» The 'other' fighting clerk - Corporal JH Mayor, N.N.C
Seaman Ainsley EmptySat Oct 17, 2020 5:07 am by Frank Allewell

» Somerset soldiers killed at Isandhlwana
Seaman Ainsley EmptyFri Oct 16, 2020 9:08 am by Julian Whybra

» "The Wiltshire Regiment 1756-1914"
Seaman Ainsley EmptySat Oct 10, 2020 4:46 am by kaveman

» The Unknown Warrior Westminster Abbey
Seaman Ainsley EmptyWed Oct 07, 2020 3:06 pm by ADMIN

» Lance Corporal Robert Eaton NMP
Seaman Ainsley EmptyTue Oct 06, 2020 2:12 pm by Julian Whybra

» Lieutenant Anthony Kingscote, HMS Tenedos
Seaman Ainsley EmptyFri Oct 02, 2020 3:31 pm by Petty Officer Tom

» Sir Robert Gordon Gilmour
Seaman Ainsley EmptyThu Oct 01, 2020 4:22 pm by 90th

» William De Passey, 17th Lancers.1879.
Seaman Ainsley EmptyThu Oct 01, 2020 11:27 am by 1879graves

» Lieutenant Frederick Streatfield Pelly, RN
Seaman Ainsley EmptyTue Sep 29, 2020 4:09 pm by 1879graves

» KEYNSHAMLIGHTHORSE GRAVES WEBSITE
Seaman Ainsley EmptyTue Sep 29, 2020 8:08 am by ADMIN

» Regimental numbers
Seaman Ainsley EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 12:55 pm by Frank Allewell

» Colour of Lord Chelsmford eyes
Seaman Ainsley EmptyFri Sep 25, 2020 8:05 am by Simonsole

» List of identified bodies at Isandlwana
Seaman Ainsley EmptyThu Sep 17, 2020 5:30 am by John Young

» Defenders of Rorkes Drift
Seaman Ainsley EmptyWed Sep 16, 2020 6:47 pm by Digger

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Rorke's Drift BBC Radio 4
Top posters
90th
Seaman Ainsley Bar_leftSeaman Ainsley BarSeaman Ainsley Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Seaman Ainsley Bar_leftSeaman Ainsley BarSeaman Ainsley Bar_right 
littlehand
Seaman Ainsley Bar_leftSeaman Ainsley BarSeaman Ainsley Bar_right 
ADMIN
Seaman Ainsley Bar_leftSeaman Ainsley BarSeaman Ainsley Bar_right 
1879graves
Seaman Ainsley Bar_leftSeaman Ainsley BarSeaman Ainsley Bar_right 
rusteze
Seaman Ainsley Bar_leftSeaman Ainsley BarSeaman Ainsley Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Seaman Ainsley Bar_leftSeaman Ainsley BarSeaman Ainsley Bar_right 
John
Seaman Ainsley Bar_leftSeaman Ainsley BarSeaman Ainsley Bar_right 
Mr M. Cooper
Seaman Ainsley Bar_leftSeaman Ainsley BarSeaman Ainsley Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Seaman Ainsley Bar_leftSeaman Ainsley BarSeaman Ainsley Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Isandlwana, Last Stands
Adding to the Library
The ammunition question
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
william henry Natal Franklin Durnford smith john gardner Woolfryes martini harford taylor drift horse Mounted Archibald George 24th Russell payne james Police spalding Isandlwana Prince zulu

 

 Seaman Ainsley

Go down 
AuthorMessage
SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 859
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Seaman Ainsley Empty
PostSubject: Seaman Ainsley   Seaman Ainsley EmptyMon Oct 30, 2017 6:25 am

Hi
Almost everybody (with an interest into Isandlwana) has read of the death of Seaman Ainsley....back against a wheel, hacking and slashing at the Zulus, cussing and swearing like a sailor.

But where did the story come from?

Was the event mentioned in a Zulu account?

Cheers

Simon
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1998
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 23

Seaman Ainsley Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seaman Ainsley   Seaman Ainsley EmptyMon Oct 30, 2017 1:39 pm

I know it is not relevant to what you are referring to but according to Milne Ainsley's body was recognized the morning of the 23rd when several men went out to search the camp. His pockets had been searched through with several photos left on the floor that Milne took.

I have heard this story many times and would love to know the source Salute

Cheers
Sam
Back to top Go down
Petty Officer Tom

Petty Officer Tom

Posts : 161
Join date : 2017-02-05

Seaman Ainsley Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seaman Ainsley   Seaman Ainsley EmptyMon Oct 30, 2017 3:31 pm

Simon,

I, too, have been interested in the source of the story surrounding the death of William Henry Aynsley, Signalman 2nd Class, of H.M.S. Active.  After several years of research I have failed to come across any first person accounts, but I have found several accounts that were written shortly afterwards.  

Gunner John Carroll, Royal Marine Artillery, who was one of HMS Active’s marines at Fort Eshowe, upon hearing of the loss of Aynsley, wrote in his diary on 1 February 1879 “one of the Actives men named Ainsly, a servant of lieut. Milne who is aide de camp to the general has been killed, six Zulu’s lying around his body with the marks of cutlass wounds.”

An article in the Glasgow Herald newspaper, March 7, 1879 quoting an extract from a private letter sent from Maritzburg, gave the following account from the disaster on January 22.  “An old man, owner of some of the waggons, concealed himself amongst the packages in one of his waggons, and saw the fight.  He describes the desperate way our men fought back to back until they were assegaied.  He says that a sailor drew his cutlass, rushed among the Zulus, and killed five, before a man crept behind him and stabbed him.”   I have a few problems with this account. I would think that Aynsley would have to have been killed before the fugitives fled the camp in order for the “old man” to survive the battle.  The Zulus went through all the wagons looking for things to loot.

On 28 March 1879 Colonel Stanley, the Secretary of State for War, speaking in the House of Commons during debates on the Zulu War, stated “I will take another case, the facts of which can be vouched for by more than one person. In the fatal disaster at Isandlana two pathetic sights were seen.  A blue-jacket, the servant of Lieutenant Milne, of the Navy, who was fighting against any odds, got his back to a waggon and kept off his opponents, laughing the whole time as if he were making a joke of the matter.  I am sorry to say that that gallant man met with the common fate.”  I would like to know who Colonel Stanley was referring to when he said “vouched for by more than one person.”  

While delivering a paper on Naval Brigades to the Royal United Service Institution in 1882 Captain Fletcher Campbell, who commanded the Naval Brigade during the Zulu War made a reference to Signalman Aynsley.  “A young signalman of the ‘Active’ defended himself with one (a sword-bayonet), so I have been told, at Isandula, killing four Zulus before being himself assegaied in the back by a savage who crept under the wagon against which he was standing.”

Sam,

Lt Nathaniel Newman-Davis of the Buffs, who was serving with the Mounted Infantry, came across Aynsley’s body.  Newham-Davis took a number of personal items, including photographs, from the body, which he gave to Lieutenant Milne to return to Aynsley’s family. Newman-Davis also took Aynsley's cutlass, which he kept as a souvenir.  Newmam-Davis later told the story about the cutlass to a boy's paper, “Chums,” around 1900.

Tom
Back to top Go down
Petty Officer Tom

Petty Officer Tom

Posts : 161
Join date : 2017-02-05

Seaman Ainsley Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seaman Ainsley   Seaman Ainsley EmptyMon Oct 30, 2017 8:15 pm

I forgot to add one more source.  

There is a footnote in “The Royal Navy: A history from the Earliest Times to the Present,” Volume 7, by Sir William Laird Clowes, London, 1903 that contains the following: “The only representative of the Navy present at Isandhlwana was William Aynsley, a signalman belonging to the Active. He was seen “his back against a waggon wheel keeping the Zulus at bay with his cutlass but a Zulu crept up behind him and stabbed him through the spokes.” Hallam Parr: ‘Sketch of the Kaffir and Zulu Wars.’”

If anyone has a copy of Captain Henry Hallam Parr’s “Sketch of the Kaffir and Zulu Wars” maybe they can enlighten us.

Tom
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell

Posts : 7623
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 73
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Seaman Ainsley Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seaman Ainsley   Seaman Ainsley EmptyTue Oct 31, 2017 4:27 am

Hi POT
HP's comments. page 221, exactly as you have posted. There are no footnotes or attributions. What I find interesting is his comment that Aynsley was 'seen'. Considering how late this incident would have taken place I would assume that it could only have been a Zulu testimony or someone who left the battle very late on. Possibly that would reduce the number of accounts to search.
Cheers
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965

Posts : 859
Join date : 2017-05-13
Age : 55
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Seaman Ainsley Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seaman Ainsley   Seaman Ainsley EmptyTue Oct 31, 2017 6:30 am

It does tend to be (to me) a bit of Victorian propaganda - a cunning native overcoming a powerful foe by being sneaky (a bit like the Viking holding the bridge at Stamford Bridge being humbugged by a Saxon in a swill tub)

I am not questioning the basic event but it does seem that there is too much detail.

I am inclined to think that it was one of those stories that although based on fact, went through the Army/Navy and as far as Parliament - a little like the 'Angel' of Mons or the Crucified Canadian in WWI.

I would assume that the earliest (written) account (from the Marine on the Active) would have been a bit partisan - giving 6 killed Zulus....

Maybe we'll never find the source....oh well...

Cheers

sime



Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14

Posts : 1998
Join date : 2011-08-01
Age : 23

Seaman Ainsley Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seaman Ainsley   Seaman Ainsley EmptyTue Oct 31, 2017 11:08 am

Hi POT
Thanks for the information Very Happy

If he was found with his Cutlass and several dead Zulu's around him it is possible people just presumed what occurred and this spiralled into the current story.

Cheers
Sam
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




Seaman Ainsley Empty
PostSubject: Re: Seaman Ainsley   Seaman Ainsley Empty

Back to top Go down
 
Seaman Ainsley
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: GENERAL DISCUSSION AREA-
Jump to: