WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM

Film Zulu: Colour Sergeant Bourne: It's a miracle. Lieutenant John Chard: If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle. Colour Sergeant Bourne: And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind it.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  Latest imagesLatest images  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Latest topics
» Colonel William Bellairs Staff
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyToday at 6:58 pm by rai

» Prince Imperial model for a statue
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyToday at 5:21 pm by Frank Allewell

» Volunteers Recruitment advert
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyToday at 2:58 pm by 90th

» Lord Thesiger / Chelmsfords plan to conquer Zululand October 1878
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyToday at 2:45 pm by 90th

» Sergeant Major William English
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyToday at 2:32 am by gardner1879

» Military Intellegence Turrant Cuff Hibbard Daly Bell Thornton
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyToday at 2:06 am by gardner1879

» Arrival of troops 1878 Pulleine Upcher Anstey Hodson Heaton Palmer Spalding Mansell
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyToday at 1:47 am by gardner1879

» Captain E Parsons
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyToday at 12:05 am by Eddie

» Captain Robert Francis Vetch
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyYesterday at 11:09 pm by gardner1879

» Ladysmith Zulu War Laager
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyYesterday at 10:56 pm by gardner1879

» Corporal Archer and Trooper Sawyer Weatherly's Border Horse
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyYesterday at 10:49 pm by gardner1879

» Private 1660 John Sligo 1/13th Regiment
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyYesterday at 8:06 pm by gardner1879

» Lieutenant Nicholas H H Sadlier / Sadleir Jackson 1st Dragoon Guards
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyYesterday at 9:31 am by John Young

» iSandlwana a Zulu account describing the Zulu discovery and battle
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyYesterday at 5:51 am by gardner1879

» Rorke's Drift by Those Who Were There
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyYesterday at 5:02 am by Julian Whybra

» Private Richard James Kelly 99th Regiment
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyTue Jan 31, 2023 9:19 pm by rai

» The fate of deserters in South Africa
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyTue Jan 31, 2023 11:33 am by 90th

» Sergeant 1574 Fred G Style / Styles 17th Lancers
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyTue Jan 31, 2023 6:52 am by gardner1879

» Sergeant Armstrong 2nd / 3rd 60th Regiment The best shot in the British Army
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyMon Jan 30, 2023 10:02 pm by gardner1879

» Deserters Eastney Edwards Condon 1st Dragoon Guards Knowland Purnell Simmons Dousben 58th Regiment
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyMon Jan 30, 2023 9:49 pm by gardner1879

» Private 425 John Coates 3/60 Regiment
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyMon Jan 30, 2023 9:11 pm by gardner1879

» Sergeant Bates / James 1st Dragoon Guards
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyMon Jan 30, 2023 8:53 pm by gardner1879

» Major Arthur Grey Hazlerigg 2/21st Regiment
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyMon Jan 30, 2023 6:15 am by gardner1879

» Sergeant Major 2322 J Wilkins Private 964 E St Clair Major A F Terry 3/60th Regiment
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyMon Jan 30, 2023 6:10 am by gardner1879

» Private 25B/947 James Noot / Noote 2/24th Regiment Mounted Infantry
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySun Jan 29, 2023 7:33 pm by Julian Whybra

» Sergeant 2941 William Johnson 2nd Battalion Coldstream Guards
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySat Jan 28, 2023 8:46 pm by rai

» Colour Sergeant 886 Joseph Wardle 2/4th Regiment
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySat Jan 28, 2023 8:13 pm by rai

» Royal Marine Light Infantry, Chatham
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySat Jan 28, 2023 11:37 am by 90th

» Trooper Borain Natal Carbineers - Isandlwana Casualty
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySat Jan 28, 2023 12:26 am by 90th

» Burial of the dead at iSandlwana
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySat Jan 28, 2023 12:11 am by 90th

» Departed Heroes W H Drummond, Petras Lafras Uys, Captain Gubbins memorials
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySat Jan 28, 2023 12:04 am by 90th

» Private 1561 Henry Fuge 2/24th Regiment
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyThu Jan 26, 2023 10:34 pm by rai

» Private 1726 T Powell 1st Dragoon Guards
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyThu Jan 26, 2023 9:25 pm by rai

» Colour Sergeant 45/719 Henry Dowsley Stacpole 2/3rd Regiment
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyThu Jan 26, 2023 8:53 pm by rai

» Lieutenant James Stewart Douglas O Battery 6th Brigade Royal Artillery
Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyThu Jan 26, 2023 7:23 am by ADMIN

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
The Missionaries The Zulus & The British Empire in Southern Africa / Full Documentary.
Top posters
90th
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
littlehand
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
ADMIN
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
1879graves
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
Julian Whybra
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
rusteze
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
gardner1879
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
John Young
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
Chelmsfordthescapegoat
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
Top posting users this month
gardner1879
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
90th
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
Eddie
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
Frank Allewell
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
John Young
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
rai
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
Gosli
Composite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_leftComposite coy of 2/24th theory BarComposite coy of 2/24th theory Bar_right 
Most active topics
Durnford was he capable.1
Durnford was he capable. 4
Durnford was he capable.5
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The ammunition question
Durnford was he capable. 3
Durnford was he capable.2
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
The missing five hours.
Most Viewed Topics
Please Do Not Post Ads on Our Forum
Google Chrome new standards imposed
Recent Members To The ZULU WAR 1879 Discussion & Reference Forum ( A Small Victorian War in 1879)
Pte David Jenkins. 'Forgotten' Survivor of Rorke's Drift Returned to Official Records
Isandlwana, Last Stands
The missing five hours.
ISANDLWANA SURVIVIORS
The ammunition question
Lieutenant Adendorff 1-3 N.N.C.
Adding to the Library
Fair Use Notice
Fair use notice. This website may contain copyrighted material the use of which has not been specifically authorised by the copyright owner. We are making such material and images are available in our efforts to advance the understanding of the “Anglo Zulu War of 1879. For educational & recreational purposes. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material, as provided for in UK copyright law. The information is purely for educational and research purposes only. No profit is made from any part of this website. If you hold the copyright on any material on the site, or material refers to you, and you would like it to be removed, please let us know and we will work with you to reach a resolution.
Keywords
24th Franklin anstey henry George john 2022 Isandlwana Jones brown horse smith drift Mounted rifles williams Russell Roll Natal martini james Durnford Prince harford taylor Police
 

 Composite coy of 2/24th theory

Go down 
+3
Frank Allewell
ymob
Drummer Boy 14
7 posters
AuthorMessage
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-02
Age : 25

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySat Nov 18, 2017 12:00 am

Hi everyone a theory i've come up with no idea if its a good one Suspect

Jackson states that a composite coy of 2/24th was formed out of the men left behind in the camp and most likely
commanded by Lt's Dyer and Griffith and that it would have been posted to the right of Wardell and fallen back with H coy and that this explains why Dyer a 2/24th officer was found in the H Coy square.
Is it not possible though that command was given to Captain Degacher given he was a senior officer with more experience then the young Dyer and Griffith and A company was in good hands with Lt. Porteous.

I came up with this as Black states he found at the H company square Wardell, Dyer and
"a captain and a subaltern not recognisable."

I don't see how Mostyn could get to H Coy given he was on the left so that really does just leave Degacher as the only other Captain of the 24th who could have fell with H Coy.

Any thoughts would be appreciated  Salute  

Cheers
Sam
Back to top Go down
ymob

ymob


Posts : 2268
Join date : 2010-10-23
Location : France

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySat Nov 18, 2017 2:49 am

Bonjour Sam,
What do you search to establish?
-William Degacher was killed near Dyer and Wardell?
or
- He was killed in the same area of Wardell and Dyer because he took command of the "Composite Coy"?
It's not quite the same question
Cheers.
Frédéric
Back to top Go down
http://frbomy@hotmail.fr
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8398
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySat Nov 18, 2017 3:34 am

Hi Sam
I understand where your heading but a point to remember is the general confusion and separation that had to have occurred within the companies as they retreated from a fairly wide defence line to an ever diminishing position. Companies would have joined together, separated and eventualled been driven in on each other. Elements breaking of as they saw a gap and possibly joining with other breakaways. An amorphous mass really, anything could have happened, and probably did.
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-02
Age : 25

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySat Nov 18, 2017 5:10 am

Hi Frederic

Well i basically thought Degacher must be the captain identified with Wardell and Dyer given Younghusband was found elsewhere and Mostyn was on the left.
Therefor i theorised he may have ended up with Wardell as he was in charge of the composite company of 2/24th men as he had more experience then Dyer and Griffith who were both young and he may have not rejoined A company yet meaning he was free to do this. When the composite company fell back they did so with H company and that is how both Dyer a 2/24th officer and Degacher could have ended up with H company men.

I came up with it procrastinating in my lecture and thought i'd see what others thought Very Happy
As Frank says we will never know for sure if that is how he ended up there if it was him but still fun all the same.  

Cheers
Sam
Back to top Go down
Frank Allewell

Frank Allewell


Posts : 8398
Join date : 2009-09-21
Age : 75
Location : Cape Town South Africa

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySat Nov 18, 2017 5:16 am

Hell Sam don't stop thinking, its what makes this forum interesting, different thoughts different ideas. Its entertaining.
Regards
Back to top Go down
Drummer Boy 14

Drummer Boy 14


Posts : 2008
Join date : 2011-08-02
Age : 25

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySun Nov 19, 2017 2:00 am

Cheers Frank i'll agree with that Very Happy

Sam
Back to top Go down
WeekendWarrior

WeekendWarrior


Posts : 250
Join date : 2017-07-22
Location : San Diego, CA

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptySat Sep 28, 2019 3:58 am

A bit late, but Colonel Degacher supposedly did discover the body of his brother where the GOC's column bivouacked; on the Nek. For whatever little what's worth.
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3272
Join date : 2011-09-13
Location : Billericay, Essex

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyTue Oct 01, 2019 8:35 pm

Drummer Boy
Degacher became acting Major, Pulleine's Field Officer, the moment Pulleine became camp commander and would have left his coy. Porteous then took command of A coy.
These would have been standing orders.
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 902
Join date : 2017-05-14
Age : 57
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyWed Oct 02, 2019 3:01 am

Hi,

Would Durnford taking command of the camp, when he rode in, have an affect on Degachers detachment or would the reported comment (my words but something like) "I'm not staying long & don't intend to interfere" made a difference?

Are there any survivors accounts of seeing Degacher anywhere during the battle? You would think he would be with or near HBP but is not mentioned (AFAIK) in the breakfast account or squabble between AWD and HBP over supporting the NNMC?

Could he be classed as Pulleine's 2IC before the arrival of AWD and possibly after his departure?

Ta

Simon
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3272
Join date : 2011-09-13
Location : Billericay, Essex

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyWed Oct 02, 2019 3:57 am

SRB
Yes, he was Pulleine's 2iC before and after Durnford's departure. Since he was field officer, he would not necessarily have "been near HBP" but engaged in his duties 'in the field' during the battle.
As a 1st bn officer he would certainly not have been given temporary command over a 2nd bn company (even a composite one).
As well as being a lieut, Dyer was also adjutant of the 2nd bn and perfectly capable of taking a company command in action.
Not only that, he had a wonderful middle name!
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 902
Join date : 2017-05-14
Age : 57
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyWed Oct 02, 2019 4:58 am

Without darting for my books or Google, I don't recall Dyers middle name....however I can take a wild guess at it and that it was not 'Simon'......

I suppose he would not have been given command of the G Coy but he might have taken command of it.....who would have thought that a 'tradesman' would command at Rorke's Drift and another at Isandlwana.......
Back to top Go down
1879graves

1879graves


Posts : 3319
Join date : 2009-03-03
Location : Devon

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyWed Oct 02, 2019 5:17 am

Julian Whybra wrote:

Not only that, he had a wonderful middle name!

Julian

agree
Back to top Go down
http://zuluwar1879.tribalpages.com
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3272
Join date : 2011-09-13
Location : Billericay, Essex

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyWed Oct 02, 2019 6:05 am

SRB
The field officer would not have taken command of any single unit when his responsibility was for the whole line.
Graves
Who's a clever boy then!
Back to top Go down
SRB1965

SRB1965


Posts : 902
Join date : 2017-05-14
Age : 57
Location : Uttoxeter - the last place God made and he couldn't be bothered to finish it.....

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyWed Oct 02, 2019 7:14 am

Hi

With all due respect to your knowledge.....in desperate situations, unusual things happen.......you cannot say for definite.....yes Queens Regs/SOs may say different.....but the annals of British military history throw up many situations that are not the 'done thing'.....

I realise the burden of proof is on the person arguing against the norm....but it can not be definitely said he would not take command of (or been with) a unit.....I personally feel that as an experienced officer, he could have placed himself where he felt would have been most useful - even if that was with an enlarged company in danger of being outflanked and isolated...as G Coy was.

Cheers

Simon
Back to top Go down
Julian Whybra




Posts : 3272
Join date : 2011-09-13
Location : Billericay, Essex

Composite coy of 2/24th theory Empty
PostSubject: Re: Composite coy of 2/24th theory   Composite coy of 2/24th theory EmptyWed Oct 02, 2019 7:39 pm

Simon
No-one can say anything for definite. Certainly, when the composite coy was formed the situation was not desperate (Essex "The men were laughing and chatting in the ranks..."), and the company had an experienced officer and junior subaltern available to command it - Dyer & Griffith (more than A coy had), so why on earth would Pulleine have placed Degacher with it? Why not with A coy getting by with one officer?
Degacher would/could not have placed himself anywhere. Only Pulleine (or Durnford) as superior officer could have done that.
The available evidence is that it was not an enlarged coy (i.e. G coy + composite coy). The only eye-witness reported seeing separate coys and counted them as such.
As you say, the burden of proof rests with the proponent of the new idea but I can't find anything concrete to support DB's suggestion.
Back to top Go down
 
Composite coy of 2/24th theory
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Members of the 1/24th & 2nd/24th Reg of foot present at R.D 22/23 Jan 1879 but who was serving between 1866-69
» The 21st January and the Decoy theory
» Rebutting Lock and Quantril's Theory About Colonel Durnford
» Zulu Medal to the Noble 24th 2762 Corpl.T.Goodman 2-24th Foot
» Very Rare Photo's. Members of 1st/24th & 2nd/24th Regiment Of Foot

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
WWW.1879ZULUWAR.COM  :: ZULU WAR BATTLES-
Jump to: